Growing a Language (1998) [video] | Hacker News Reader

Growing a Language (1998) [video]

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111 pointsswatson74120 comments

If you've never seen this video you owe it to your self to watch it. It really I think captures the essence of systems thinking.

It's also a master class in story telling, which you rarely see the context of a technical presentation.

Yeah, I have never seen it before, but I saw it yesterday, and it is easily the best talk on programming languages, and programming, I have ever seen.

I have posted it to /r/cpp and interestingly some mode removed it as C++ was only "briefly mentioned".

To me, it feels quite obvious that "modern C++" has taken a note from that talk, and its efforts seem to be towards what Steel describe there, as a big language that lets people the possibility to extend the language and look relatively the same as the native syntax via its new meta programming facilities. That talk also answers many complaints about C++ heard today of being large, hard, write-only etc.

Also, in the historical context, I think it is quite a peak towards Gosling & Co, and Java, which at the time was heavily marketed not seldom by shunning of some of the C++ features, notably operator overloading and multiple inheritance.

One of my favorite talks of all time. I took personal notes here: https://www.swyx.io/notes-on-growing-a-language-by-guy-steel...

On a separate note, Guy Steele's Common Lisp Book is awesome. https://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/cltl2.html

It's a bit of a regret for me that it was always a hobby thing and my career never took me in a direction where I would have got to use it in a professional capacity.

I love all the dry jokes in it. Just scattered thither and yon like it was a children's book, easter eggs found in the most unlikely places.

Do you know if it's common to read CLTL2 from front to back, or just use it strictly as a reference?

It's probably better to read it front to back because CLTL2 isn't 1994 standard Common Lisp.

Right, CLTL2 doesn't conform to the ansi spec. I just wonder if it's common to read all the way through, or as a reference in addition to CLHS, to maybe get some additional perspective on why a feature is a certain way, etc ...

I also loved his C Reference manual. Dry jokes funny but educational examples like, this example of micro-optimization.

>here is an example of how good intentions can lead to chaos:

    switch(x)
         default:
         if (prime(x))
            case 2: case 3: case 5: case 7:
              process_prime(x);
         else
            case 4: case 6: case 8: case 9: case 10:
              process_composite(x);

>This is, frankly, the most bizarre switch statement we have ever seen that still pretenses to be purposeful

Growing a Language (1998) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24383919 - Sept 2020 (34 comments)

Growing a Language, by Guy Steele (1998) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16847691 - April 2018 (20 comments)

Growing a Language (1998) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10153391 - Sept 2015 (8 comments)

Growing a Language (1998) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9918286 - July 2015 (10 comments)

Growing a Language, by Guy Steele - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3744125 - March 2012 (5 comments)

Guy Steele: Growing a Language (video 53:30) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2359174 - March 2011 (21 comments)

Growing a Language, by Guy Steele - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=827107 - Sept 2009 (2 comments)

Growing a Language, by Guy Steele [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=626380 - May 2009 (3 comments)

Growing a Language by Guy Steele - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=152311 - April 2008 (7 comments)

Worth reading or rereading: Guy Steele's Growing a Language (PDF) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=92542 - Dec 2007 (1 comment)

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p.s.: reposts are fine after a year or so; links to past threads are just to satisfy extra-curious readers. Also it's good for the classics to reappear periodically, so new cohorts of HN users get to know them and the culture can propagate!

Exquisite. Is it only my impression that beginning a presentation with first principles is far rarer than it used to be? It was both reassuring and refreshing.

His spoken language goes beyond precise and into… anachronism.

it was the math prof who made "life" who gave (with a friend hop) me the game where one speaks with just these base words.

what? john conway? what words?

Yes, that is the math prof. And they mean, words with just one -- how do you say -- speak beat?

ITYM “syllable”

That can not be a word, it is too big. One pulse per word is the most there can be.

Tell me you’ve not watched the talk...

The talk defines the word.

Funny how the very first sentence of the talk "i think you all know what a man is" would now be subject of heated discussions.

oh the times they are a changin...

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