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Comment by mynonameaccount | Hacker News Reader

People who go to China deserve everything they get

Not really. I'm not a lover of china, but I don't wish ill on people who go there or think people should have to deal with arbitrary enforcement of laws because you are from a foreign country.

I feel like "wish ill" might be too strong of a way to put it. Consider that most people aren't rooting for drunk drivers to crash their cars, but also don't feel that bad when one does without hurting anyone else.

I don't feel like china is a bustling international tourist destination. I assume most people visiting have family ties or a specific purpose for their visit like business, not going there "just because I can".

Do you have any friends in the tech industry? I have at least one friend who wound up at a job whose chief responsibilities were factory-based, and therefore that involved his frequent and extended travels to China.

I believe that probably the most common travel from US->China would be business-related, and I also believe that most of those travelers really don't feel like they have a choice where they travel to, since that's where the factories are and that's where the electronics come from. For now.

How did all of the factories end up in China but a series of choices by Americans? They have choices and always have, but insatiable greed keeps them going to China.

Increased globalization and US public policies of the 90s and 2000's encouraged this activity. To say it was any specific reason, like corporate greed, is hand waving away the complexity of the problem.

There were many, many reasons factories moved away from the US, one of which was the profit margins on goods, which actually is complex and directly influenced by the way taxes/accounting/finances are done in corporate America.

Don't get me wrong, greed has been a major, if not the major motivator, but there were so many people either asleep at the wheel, or actively driving us towards the outcome we have today.

I wouldn't mind to read about those other many reasons besides greed. Care to share a link?

Just speaking from experience, often times offshoring isn't actually that much cheaper. The total cost of ownership often times is not calculated correctly, or because of the way financials are done, give incentives to move costs around to make stock numbers look better. For example, if a company said they reduced the cost per unit to offshore production by 50%, but don't mention shipping has tripled and quality has gone down, in addition to costing a ton of money to transition, only netting 10-20% savings, the market often only cares about the unit costs.

I would say the number one thing people do is they don't allocate overhead or things like shipping/logistics/lead times into the total costs.

Like for example, if it takes 3 months to have a product, you should store more inventory than if you were doing it in the US. You also shouldn't just look at just the raw unit price, you factor in shipping, quality assurance checks, inefficiency of engineering changes, etc. which many people don't actually do.

Thanks for the insight. From my layman point of view, 10%-20% savings in the long run still looks like something to go for, taking as a reference the multinational I work for, where a 7% saving on whatever is seen as a triumph. I'd say the greed point still stands, the additional logistics involved are just how it works.

> Do you have any friends in the tech industry? I have at least one friend who wound up at a job whose chief responsibilities were factory-based, and therefore that involved his frequent and extended travels to China.

I'd quit my job rather than go on a business trip to China. No amount of money is enough to put my life at such high risk.

You realize the vast, vast majority of the electronics industry and many other industries have very little choice in the matter (for the time being at least). That's great you can make that decision, but there are many who don't have that luxury.

If you want or require mass production of electronics or motors, it's fairly difficult to have done in the US for competitive pricing (or in some cases, at all).

How would you feel about a trip to India? Speaking as someone who has been to both India and China, China has a stronger rule of law and feels safer than India. (For context: I am saying this as a white American male)

My biggest worry isn't the crime. It's the risk that the CCP will kill me or lock me up for the rest of my life. I wouldn't be willing to go to India either, but if I were forced to choose between the two, I would pick it over China.

Hilariously enough netizens in China are saying that Chinese tourists that were attacked during the Paris riots deserved it for leaving China and should be forced to live in Paris. Nationalism is a disease.

Personally I still want to travel to China - some of the highlands look incredible and I'd love to see the Great Wall, as well as some of the big cities. Politics completely aside, a great deal of Chinese people I meet are lovely and tell me the country can be quite spectacular.

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