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Comment by Simorgh | Hacker News Reader

I think this is an issue of perspective.

I know someone who quite recently died of Covid. There is no longer a pandemic, but the virus is still deadly. Their concern is justified.

Economically, the US is critically dependent on China for facilitating consumer demand. The US cannot afford an adversary in China.

Ethically, the US is not offering a compelling framework or alternative that alleviates the issues you raise. This is a real concern.

China has lifted hundreds of millions of people directly out of extreme poverty. This is their prerogative and modus operandi.

The only way forward is cooperation, adjustment and coordination.

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If the CCP were so concerned with COVID why did they have a victory concert in August 2020[1]? Obviously the virus is still deadly, but it seems at least inconsistent for CCP COVID policy to be “we did it!” in August 2020, then lock downs in 2022.

Regarding “lifting people out of poverty”, did hundreds of millions of people’s hard work have anything to do with lifting _themselves_ out of poverty or does the CCP get all the credit? If CCP gets the credit, there was certainly a lot of “trial and error” before they got it right. Was it worth the lives of 30 million people?

[1]: https://www.businessinsider.com/wuhans-mask-less-pool-party-...

I can understand this being hard to comprehend, but if China actually effectively deployed a zero covid policy initially - it's up to you whether you think the reports to this effect are true or not - then a mask-less concert is in fact pretty safe as long as you're not allowing foreigners to bring COVID into the country.

Of course the moment you let Americans in to your country, you've given up your battle against COVID since we decided to just let it rip.

China's not the only country that tried a zero COVID policy and for a while it was working in other places too thanks to management techniques, travel restrictions, quarantines, etc. (New Zealand is one, iirc) But when one of the biggest and most powerful countries in the world decides to just give up on the fight nobody else is going to win.

COVID wasn't anywhere close to just let rip in the US. There's an argument that happened late on in some very Trumpian districts, hence the wards full of dying vaccine deniers late in the pandemic, but overall the difference between COVID policies in Democrat and Republican regions was marginal. Both sides screamed to high heaven about every single wrinkle in policy like it was existential, but they all locked down.

> if China actually effectively deployed a zero covid policy initially - it's up to you whether you think the reports to this effect are true or not - then a mask-less concert is in fact pretty safe as long as you're not allowing foreigners to bring COVID into the country.

I mean it is not actually a matter of belief. We know how infectious COVID was, and we know life in China pretty much resumed as normal by August 2020, except for hard lockdowns wherever a case popped up. You cannot hide exponential growth of infections, it is simply impossible.

'Let it rip' is 'flatten the curve' for someone who unscientifically thinks zero Covid is practically possible.

China made the wrong decision and almost sparked an internal collapse. They lost the youth and the hopelessness in the country is palpable.

Where in China do you live?

How is thinking zero covid is possible in 2020 "unscientific"?

Did anyone try and fail at that point? Were there experiments that tried to achieve zero covid, exhausted all practical methods and still failed?

I'd argue that even today, zero covid is not "scientifically" proven practically impossible. The fact that China tried and failed does not mean it's inherently practically impossible. For all I can tell, it's only "practically impossible" because only China was able to pull off the authoritarian measures to suppress the spread of the virus. In a more authoritarian world, we might have been able to eradicate covid. Does your "science" include a deep discourse in political systems?

It was impossible after we learned a few things:

-R0 was quite high

-Animals can hold and spread the virus, so even after vaccinations of humans it was going to be in the background

-not every country was trying for zero Covid, therefore at some point in the future if you ever hope to have an open border with a country that has open borders with that country, you get it eventually.

-there are no 100% secure borders

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