Australia legalises psychedelics for mental health
bbc.co.uk
bbc.co.uk
This is misleading. It's 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, an amphetamine and a stimulant. It has minor psychedelic effects and no one in their right mind would consider it a hallucinogen.
the psychedelic effects are lesser than e.g. DOB, but if you look at its cousin MDA you can see it's on the spectrum of psychedelia. a better category for MDMA is "empathogen/entactogen."
MDMA is more selective for serotonin, but it does release dopamine as well.
Comparing it to Wellbutrin, a nonstimulant, is far more misleading. MDMA is an amphetamine, and it acts similarly (but not identically) to other amphetamines that people are familiar with.
I'm also not sure you can claim that Wellbutrin isn't a stimulant, since it's a dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.
Does it though? In my (and friend's) experience it intensifies emotions and senses but doesn't produce anything new, nor is it so intense as to be a "deliriant". I can't help but think people are labeling this drug over broadly without controlled research, because of its illegal status.
The mechanism of action of mdma makes anything above normal somewhat redundant.
Also expensive.
The requirement that, for the entire (up to 8-10 hour) duration of the trip, a suitably qualified therapist be on hand, must dictate that each non-trivial dosage under this regime will have a ticket price of several thousand dollars per-time.
It's one of the catch-22s in medicine. That a poor person on the street can have the same experience for $50 as a rich person has for $5000, with the difference in cost being the literal $4950 more of specialists and testers and monitors and side experts that the rich person is paying for. For reasons, yes, but that doesn't change the numbers, the fact that for every one of the latter there are 10 of the former.
Not the same. You mentioned the ongoing support through the whole trip already. Then there's guidance for the purpose of the experience rather than possibly just getting lost in the feeling/escape. Then there's validated source/safety of the drugs. Finally, if anything goes wrong, you have a person hopefully trained in how to respond immediately.
"..the difference in cost being the literal $4950 more of specialists and testers and monitors and side experts that the rich person is paying for. For reasons, yes..."
I'd say it's very unlikely that these treatments will ever be government subsidied for anything except very treatment resistant depression/PTSD (for psilocybin/MDMA respectively).
So young people who want to get high have to go to drug dealers who also offer meth and other drugs.
Thanks, conservative Australian politicians.
> The regulator says there are currently no approved products that contain MDMA or psilocybin. However the reclassification means psychiatrists will be able to access and legally supply certain medicines that contain them, even if they have not been evaluated for safety or effectiveness.
How exactly is this supposed to work then? Are psychiatrists supposed to order MDMA/psilocybin directly from the companies that produce the two for research use, which presumably involves fearsome bureaucracy and markups?
It sounds like this would make the law effectively a dead letter until a regular pharma company goes through the Australian approval process and gets the drugs into pharmacies. Medical marijuana in Australia has suffered from similar issues, with an onerous approval process in many states making it very difficult to get a prescription.
Yes I imagine the next step is a local supplier company goes through the valid approval process and gets their product approved.
>Medical marijuana in Australia has suffered from similar issues, with an onerous approval process in many states making it very difficult to get a prescription.
I live in NSW so maybe I am a bit naive but it is possible to see a doctor over the internet that works for a dispensary in another state and have them issue you a prescription if you fit the criteria for medicinal cannabis.
I was cynical about the idea of these dispensaries having their own in house doctors but upon further thinking it makes sense since some doctors still don't acknowledge the medicinal benefit of cannabis.
The industry/clinic space is really bizzare. I have been bombarded with requests to work as a telehealth prescriber. Because of the restricted product supply, ‘clinics’ are popping up to offer telehealth consults and then push their products.
There are multiple issues with this:
- the doctors doing the prescribing are often junior doctors, not GPs or pain specialists
- they have a limited supply of stock and no real understanding of ‘what is right when’
- pretty much all the stoners I know have now switched to medical marijuana (which is fine but for the next point)
- the TGA will at some point come down on doctors who are doing shitty consults and just writing the prescription with a cursory ‘whatever’ - because the TGA and medical board in this country are not as toothless as in the US
So basically anyone can get a prescription, and the clinics are pushing their own (or their own imported) product so they get fat margins, and there’s some médico-légal risk.
Over time (and even now) there are increasing numbers of GPs who can prescribe and there are websites that can point you to them which is what I’d recommend if you or a loved one actually has a medical condition, as opposed to just wanting to get stoned.
As I understand it, yes.
Legalisation hasn't meant it has gone mainstream.
It is still going to be administered in very selective cases where the current range of medication and therapy has not been effective.
It may only be tens or low hundreds of people who receive these treatments in the first year.
The efficacy of the treatment will be monitored and the hope is that these patients outcomes are positive, which will add to the body of work supporting MDMA/psilocybin as an antidepressant.
Treatment centers could grow them on site pretty easily needing only basic cleanliness to avoid contamination.
All psychiatric treatments have a risk of a bad experience, including talk therapy.
If antidepressants are known for anything, it’s the side effects. It seems people must still go through these before psychedelics, what a shame. Hopefully this will change over time. We need more data, but I have a feeling there will be fewer side effects compared to current treatments.
Don't ask me how I know this.
Don't ask me how I know this.
That is what I was getting at - if the therapy is bad, there is a chance you can get out before it gets too bad and "save yourself".
Once you take the shrooms, there is no antidote, and there is no going back. No damage mitigation.
Sorry either way...
And in my deep experience of that area, no recreational drug I ever took (which includes quite a few!), had even a shadow of the lasting, foundational changes and effects that SSRIs have. Permanent mood alteration and permanent sexual dysfunction are just two of the common outcomes.
No so-called recreational trip (or series of trips) I ever had, resulted in that kind of monumental systemic effect.
And when you do talk about it, little beetles crawl out of the woodwork to tell you that ackshully, lots of people get help from SSRIs and you need to stop shaming them and scaring them.
So let's never mention the suicidal ideation, the tardive dyskinesia, the massive weight gain and metabolic destruction; because the psychiatrists "believe" in the SSRIs (though we don't even have a great theory how they work, or strong data that they do).
But oh, those scary mushrooms - don't you know you might have a bad trip and see stuff that isn't there; like in a dream or at a movie - oooh, spoooky.
Therapists are not infallible and like all people vary in skills and competence. Not everyone is going to benefit from therapy and for some people it will be harmful. Ditto for shrooms.
Given the expense and lack of access to therapists, for many people trying mushrooms first is probably a good option. You could have a bad time but it's very much dose dependent. Most people will just laugh a lot. Taking a massive dose and not being prepared for the things lurking in your subconscious is most definitely not recommended.
It's the usual story: if they were legal you'd have much more control over strength, variety and usage. Less people would be harmed and more people would benefit.
One of my (many) issues was fear of expressing my own feelings. (For reasons that will become clear it still is) I wasn't in complete denial of this at the time and in fact wrote a fairly long document "outing" myself, my past history and my behavioral tendencies so my therapist wouldn't be fooled by the unconscious things I said or did. It was because therapy has to be based on self-reporting because the therapist can't read your mind, so what you say to them will influence the advice they give. I had unconsciously trained myself to speak in such a way that whatever help they would give would be irrelevant to my actual situation by way of omitting details or blowing up issues out of proportion and I could eternally vent to them without getting over any of my problems. I understand this is wrong. It wasn't productive at all; it was a defense mechanism I put up to avoid talking about my feelings under the guise of being "gifted" like I had been labeled in my early years. This was what I wanted to unroot with my last therapist and though a part of me hated how I was trying to "test" them I was going to have these tendencies anyway so I thought it was better if I tried to be vulnerable about them upfront
In response to that long document of self-reflection my therapist at the time raised his voice at me and the one thing I can remember him saying was that he "was only human." I interpreted this to mean only a super-human was capable of dealing with me; that he was frustrated by something he couldn't understand. I brought this up with him but it seemed to just glance off. In fact, I realized that the entirety of my document where I had for the umpteenth time exposed my darkest feelings to a stranger had been glanced over. And indeed this exact fear of vulnerability was one of the problems I was wanting to work over with him, and now that fear had become a lot more justified in my mind. I hadn't even gotten to talking about that fear because there was still so much about myself that I hadn't written about yet and I was still planning to. Or rather, had yet to expose unjustifiably (at least how I felt in the moment). Certainly I wasn't going to write about myself anymore. I realized my latest therapist was just another person in a long line of people throughout my life, supposed friends and relatives included, for whom trying to be vulnerable only resulted in more harm to my psyche than good. And over the course of my life up to this point, that was a consistent pattern with other therapists, whether or not I was paying the person to listen. It felt like I was preventing my actual voice from being heard, and any attempt at metacognition to point at myself and say "this is the real problem, not any of the gobbledygook I was spouting earlier" was for some reason always stamped out, I guess one too many times. Maybe it's because they do take what I say at face value, and/or I really am that malicious to lead them down all the way that path. And I wasn't even looking for validation that anything in what I wrote was justifiable or didn't need to change, as my assumption was it wasn't and that was exactly what I was seeking treatment for, unconscious frames of mind that I don't normally think about every day that make people turn away
I kept going for a few more weeks but the writing was on the wall; I no longer felt comfortable there. That was after over a decade and a half of seeing dozens of therapists. I was tired of attempting the same thing in a multitude of different styles and variations and seeing the same result unfold each time. I can only conclude I'm not the kind of person that responds well to traditional talk therapy. If anyone is to blame for that it's me, not the therapist. Anything I write isn't an indictment that therapy as a whole is not helpful, because thousands of people say it is and I have no way of disproving them; all I know is that it's not helpful for me alone. I feel like I just don't resonate with anyone else's wavelength, in general, that thought biases me to avoid attempting to fit in where I possibly could have, and the cycle repeats itself. I've now fully internalized that I'm outside of the grain, so to speak, and that my opinions are irrelevant to anyone but myself
After the fact I considered that maybe the people who refused to talk to me and told me to go to therapy before I was "ready" to talk to them again had only suggested that to me because in their minds I had failed them, and I needed corrective action, that talk therapy was the corrective action, and once the specialists had done their work to set my views straight I could rejoin the grown-up league and talk to actual people again. In hindsight maybe I wouldn't have liked talking to the actual people as much as I thought I would, had their scenario come to reality
For what it's worth I still try to believe that most of the billions of people on Earth have good intentions; it's just that those intentions have nothing to do with me, it isn't big deal that they have nothing to do with me, and those people would lead happier lives if I left myself out of them. I don't want to darken anyone's day more than I feel I have to (because I deem the act of writing what's on my mind as selfish, and this entire comment is exemplary of that) so I don't persist in communication anymore; only when I feel like I absolutely have to scream out what's on my mind, and not any longer than I must from the fear of becoming yet another person that dumps their trauma on innocent people for need of validation. Past a certain point I just want to place it somewhere
And to be clear, I really, honestly believe that explanation still isn't enough to justify me writing this in such a public place, and I would still feel the shame even if I lampshaded every single motivation I have for writing it and ensuring I preemptively defended myself against every single counterattack an arbitrary internet commentator could respond to me with. In my mind being so open with my experience is merely an indicator that my ongoing metamorphosis into a person immune to emotion and vain desires has yet to succeed