Thousands of species of animals probably have consciousness
economist.com
economist.com
https://mattasher.com/2021/04/22/ep-33-peter-godfrey-smith-o...
My own leaning is towards a panpsychist view, in which case the idea of animal consciousness as a binary, or even a scalar, makes no sense. It's multifaceted and complex and built from overlapping (resonant?) pieces. For example, human tongues can act like they have a mind of their own just like the arms of an octopus.
Not all humans though. (see Kissinger)
my current cat is what I would consider above average, understands over 100 words, is very emotionally intelligent, and can communicate fairly well. she seems to have about 20-30 different vocalizations that we have agreed on, and is able to communicate that way; though not in the way of the other cat that could communicate ideas.
of course, I've also had cats that were either on the dumb side, or didn't care enough about dealing with the humans to make themselves appear as smart.
unfortunately, until we can define "consciousness" and measure it well, it will still be our own ideas on what is intelligent or conscious that we either observe with bias or make an emotional "guess" about.
It's almost exclusively carnivores/omnivores who fit this description, not herbivores....
Do you even comprehend how carnivores eat?
Btw, imagine your mind as a standalone reasoning machine: you tell it a situation and it models the outcome. This machine can reason on its own, passively wiretapping sensory inputs and modeling outputs in your memory, all without your involvement, and whayever it models will be simply ignored, as your attention would be elsewhere. In other words, the thinking process would carry on unconsciously, just like your heart's activity. However, the moment you pay attention to those thoughts and start steering the thinking machine, this process becomes conscious. A creature equipped with such thinking machine, but without anyone steering it, would be a zombie.
I understood this when I was 4-5 years old.....it's obvious if you have pets, go to a farm, anything with animals....squirrels....birds.... seriously....pet fish....haha
But in the end I suspect everyone believes it internally but that Big Mac tastes so good that we’d rather be blind to it. These studies bring it to the forefront again.
No, the _amygdala_. "Amygdala" is the plural of "amygdalon", Greek for "almond".
Also: one phenomenon, many phenomena; one criterion, many criteria; etc.
See also:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/plurals-of-for...
According to Merrimack-Webster, the plural is amygdalae, but we also knew what the author meant with amygdalas.
In any case, it may be easy to see what is meant by "amygdalas" but it is not right. "Amygdalae" is the right form of the word, whether you want to take it from Latin, Greek, or, indeed, English.
Btw, there is a lot of confusion about what is Latin and what is Greek. Both languages are used for scientific terminology (for reasons unknown, this habbit has persisted in modern times) but Latin words often borrow from Greek, but keep their Latin endings... which are often similar to the Greek ones. So it's hard to know which is which. I used to resolve this kind of confusion by perusing a good etymological lexicon of Ancient Greek, but unfortunately this was taken from me in a flood and I can only now rely on the internet, and my native knowledge of Greek.
If you take a foreign word from (say) Latin and use it in English, you also do not use Latin declension forms of it, so why use Latin plural form of it? I think it makes more sense to form plural using English grammar rules.
In essence, when you use a word like "amygdala", you are not using English. Rather, you are code-switching between Latin and English.
Personally, I like EW Schumacher's definition (a guide to the perplexed): animals are conscious because they can be knocked unconscious. Very practical.
The entire article is about the controversies and difficulties of defining consciousness, and the hypotheses of neural correlates, and at what stage of evolution those correlates appeared.
So the literal thing you seem to be snarkily complaining about, is precisely what the article is trying to directly address. With various competing scientific definitions.
I honestly don't know what more you want.
Do you have a pet dog or cat? It's obviously conscious. I guess my construct breaks down if we consider things like plants, they obviously respond to their environment.
No, thats exactly wrong inverse-style.
Simply producing outputs from inputs is not consciousness. Being actively aware you exist is the whole and being of consciousness: Absence of inputs and outputs we can understand invites us to say "not conscious, no evidence of consciousness" but thats subject to validation.
I don't personally believe plants are conscious, but I'm open to somebody demonstrating a sense of awareness. It probably won't be a mirror-test.
I guess I probably see plants like fish not exactly conscious though they certainly respond to their environment. Plants are quite noisy if you pet them, the audio is just outside our hearing range but we have devices that can track that sort of thing now. And some fish actually like to be pet, my great grandmother apparently had some fish she would pet, never met her just know of the stories. Probably everything that can grow has some level of it.
Also fun fact worm memories are stored outside the brain, their are some trained worm studies you can Google that are interesting too.
So your counterpoint should be actually split into two parts:
1. Should we work on the unsolved problem even when it is very hard and ambiguous and there is no even clear hypothesis for the solution? Of course we should.
2. Should we make new conclusions derived from the the unsolved problem #1? No, we must not.
So listing the different parties:
a) Scientists should work on the researching consciousness problem.
b) Animal activists should continue protecting animals, but not because they are supposedly conscious, but because they MAY be. We just don't know yet.
c) Journalists MUST stop writing that such and such animal has consciousness.
Oh please.
There is a position about what consciousness is which implies many animals may have it. This article is about that position. Journalists have a moral obligation to keep writing about such positions, if we are to assume that imparting harm and pain on conscious beings is evil.
There are also positions that animals, even including humans, don’t have consciousness, and consciousness doesn’t exist. They are more comfortable to most humans, especially meat eaters. This article is not about those positions.
The incompleteness theorem has an important implication that we would not be able to construct a full and verifiably formally correct model of the system from within which we ourselves operate. All we have is hypotheses. Saying that people are not free to make hypotheses that are uncomfortable to you, or that journalists are not free to write about them, is a self-serving position.
- Whether animals are asleep or awake (conscious or unconscious)
- Whether animals have subjective experience / qualia
- Whether animals are self-aware
Etc. etc.
Once you narrow down then you can try to precisely define the topic or not, but without narrowing down, it's pointless.
Edit: I don't care one way or the other, I am just confused by what seems to me like disconnected threads.
At least that's my reading of 1 Timothy 4:3
Can’t get much more primal than Genesis 1.
I can't imagine the spirit of such words carries with it the grotesqueries and indignities we're wont to inflict on our fellow sufferers. Nor for that matter the free reign over our environment. Instead I would espouse that the spirit is the maintenance of their well-being. As might a parent, or a landowner with some interest in his lot.
Genesis 1 says "I have given you every plant yielding seed ... and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food." Likewise to the animals, "I have given every green plant for food."
The word "animal" comes from the Latin animalis, meaning 'having breath', 'having soul' or 'living being'.
Why do you think this would have been different?
It's literally about scientific models of consciousness in specific body parts that specific animals have.