Canada's official numbers do show that Q3 2022 was a record high for emigration (16.5k -- Q3 2018 was 15.5k), but other recent quarters (Q4 2022, Q1 2023, etc) are still lower than prior years. And you have a significantly higher population now than back then.[1]
[1] https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=171000...
A very important detail here is that Software Engineering is a specific specialization under the Engineering faculty. This figure does not include Computer Science graduates, for example, as that is a separate and much larger department.
So, this is a poll of 87 students (out of ~107) of a very specific graduating class. To put this in perspective, the Computer Science department at Waterloo is 4,000 undergraduate students.[2]
I'm not refuting that Canadian graduates often look to the US for better employment opportunities (full disclosure: I did that), but I think we owe ourselves to look at this topic objectively.
[1] https://uw-se-2020-class-profile.github.io/profile.pdf [2] https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/about/quick-facts
According to the numbers this is not true. What specific numbers can you show that backs up yoru point?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/443066/number-of-emigran...
I like to think I'm fairly competent.
For me it's a no-brainer that it would be Italy. Not much interest on living in the US, unless I was a millionaire.
These changes announced yesterday will make it much easier for me.
Right off the top you're earning CAD instead of USD, so with the current exchange rate that's a ~25% reduction in purchasing power.
On top of that, it's a smaller country, with fewer large and wealthy industries. Salaries are not only CAD but also the actual dollar numbers tend to be smaller. EG I've seen listings for roles in the States offering 200k USD, but similar roles in Canada offer 120k CAD, which is less than 100k USD. That's a "pretty substantial" pay cut if you want it. It's also not like they make up for lower salaries with other perks like super high vacation time or anything either.
Then you're living in a country where we have some of the most expensive real estate in the world in Toronto and Vancouver, which has effects in other markets as well.
Also everything is just more expensive here, with the exception of Health Care I suppose. Groceries are absurdly expensive right now, but even when they were cheaper they weren't anywhere near as cheap as my friends pay in the US. The cheapest pound of butter you can find is $6.50 CAD right now. Same with Gas for your car, insurance, etc. All of the tech we buy is more expensive too, and not just "cost of exchange rate", it's always just higher.
Don't get me wrong, I am happy here and in a lot of ways I am glad I chose to stay rather than chasing higher salaries in the States. I'm just trying to illustrate that there are definitely struggles here too and it will very likely be a very substantial pay cut to move here and get a job here. More substantial than you probably think.
tl;dr: It's very expensive to live here in a lot of ways, our salaries don't really compete in a numerical way even before factoring in exchange rate.
But most other groceries are cheaper in Canada than in the US. For example, the average cost of a loaf of bread in Canada is CAD3.50, in the US it's USD3.50, 33% more expensive.
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_resu...
Most things are cheaper in Canada than in the US, mostly because the average wage is cheaper in Canada than the US.
But the things that are more expensive are the biggies, like rent & taxes.
I suspect this does not tell the whole story. Sticker price is one thing but how often does stuff go on on sale, what volume of coupons and other savings are readily available?
Maybe I'm completely off base here, but I've discussed this quite a bit with my friends who live in the states and overall they pay way less than I do for very similar items. And it's not some extreme couponing thing, it's just "these are buy one get one all the time", which is a rare occurrence here.
https://www.bls.gov/charts/consumer-price-index/consumer-pri...
Also... seems quite some people comparing quality of food, and usually US ends up losing. For bread and even kit kats
The gross salary is indeed very low compared to US offers--moving to DC would have increased my gross salary by >2.5x.
However, add in various public services. I pay a few hundred dollars a year total for my family's insurance and medical care and there's little danger of this suddenly changing. Childcare is literally 10x cheaper---and that's after very generous parental leave (50+ weeks). Quebec has fairly strong protections for tenants, so the rent is rising but not wildly. The city is very walkable with solid mass transit, so I can walk, bike, or bus to most places, insulating me from gas prices. Once you start trying to 'buy back' a similar quality of life in a big American city, the salary gap is smaller than you'd think.
We're interested in moving back for other reasons (closer to family, more exciting jobs, etc) but the economic case, butter aside, is not wildly compelling at non-SV salaries.
Healthcare is free but Quebec also has horrible healthcare (they seem ok for pregnancy though). And your employer would cover that in the US anyway.
Rent has historically been reasonable but is quickly getting just as bad as other Canadian cities, and there's no availability.
I think we pay $60 / day for daycare, which gets subsidized down to ~$30 ish. You paid $300 in the US? There is subsidized daycare buy only if you're willing to wait forever.
Parental leave is only pays you 50k a year or so out of your employment insurance.
I agree that driving in Montreal is so horrible that I don't use the car unless I absolutely have to. Some would consider that a positive, I don't.
There are some good sides to Montreal in particular compared to other Canadian cities and US cities, but it's still not the land of milk and honey, and you still sacrifice a lot of money for it.
Daycare for us is about $15/day (calculator here: http://www.budget.finances.gouv.qc.ca/budget/outils/garde-ne...). Some of the prices we got for DC in 2021 were over $2500/kid-month and they've only gone up, so $150/day is indeed in the ballpark.
Driving? Chacun à son goût. I found driving here better than DC or Boston, but...yeah, I'm glad I don't do it.
I agree that it's not a land of milk and honey--but nowhere else is either.
An additional subtle one where Canadians are paying less than Americans: In many parts of Canada property taxes are remarkably low when compared to the USA.
There's all sorts of reasons for this. But bad medical services is a big problem in Quebec, along with language politics.
I like many things about Quebec, but I wouldn't relocate there.
There's still a lot to like about Canada. I grew up here and didn't leave, so I'm not saying don't come here.
Just making sure you don't get here and are shocked that not only do you make way less, what you do make doesn't buy as much either.
So after rent and taxes, BC is 45k, ON is 44k, QC is 47k, and AB is 53k. Roughly.
Now you've got to pay for food, utilities, and so forth. That's probably another 30k. It's easy to spend 2500 CAD/mo on just food, gas, electrical, insurance, utilities and so on. Everything adds up fast.
So really, after all is said and done, you're working full time for 15k to 20k CAD a year; or 11k to 15k USD.
>30K on rent
Not unless you're living in luxury towers in rich areas. A 1 bedroom or a studio will rarely go above 2K, even in Vancouver or Toronto.
>2500 on food
If you're cooking, and not being frugal at all, you're spending 500 per month at most.
>gas
Canadian cities are walkable and have public transit, you don't need a car. If you do need a car where you live, then you're likely saving on rent.
>electrical
Electricity is dirt cheap in Canada. Never paid more than 60$ even in winter. Other utilities are similar to the US, that'll add up to 200-300 dollars.
>insurance
Not a thing. Welcome to modern society, baby.
I'm sure you can spend that much money if you want to, but that's a choice to live a certain lifestyle. This lifestyle is not necessary.
My first job in Canada I made 53K, 37K after taxes. I lived a normal life, studio downtown, going on vacations, drinking and eating out, and still managed to save 13000 dollars in a single year. Later I got a raises to 80K, 120K, and eventually 250K, but my (again, definitely not frugal!) lifestyle never cost me more than 25 - 30K per year.
Average price of an unfurnished 1 bedroom in Vancouver is well over 2k now.[0]
> If you're cooking, and not being frugal at all, you're spending 500 per month at most.
I said food, gas, utilities, electrical, and all the other sundries required of living in Vancouver. And 500 CAD on food was achievable pre-pandemic, but inflation hit grocery bills the hardest.
I paid for renter's insurance, and extended medical while living in Vancouver. It was worth it, because my storage locker was busted into several times by junkies and we had things stolen that we later replaced. And, if you bike you are potentially liable in accidents. Getting insurance if you commute by bicycle is sensible.
> Canadian cities are walkable and have public transit, you don't need a car.
Taking Translink will still run hundreds of dollars a month.[1]
0: https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/local-news/vancouver-rent...
1: https://www.translink.ca/transit-fares/pricing-and-fare-zone...
Inflation, sure, it's still not gonna be more than 700$. My 500$ figure is literally from 2022.
Rent insurance is 30$ per month, anything else is optional and your choice and also not that expensive. That does not add up to 2500 per month.
And yeah, I know transit costs money, just get a pass. Work pays for it, and if they don't you can deduct it from your taxes.
Utilities includes heat and hot water, electrical, home internet, cellular, gym memberships, and so on. I suppose if you never turn on the heater, don't have home internet, never hit the gym, don't make any calls, don't own a car, and only shit at work then you could save a bundle, here.
The transit tax credit was eliminated in 2017.[1]
0: https://rentals.ca/new-westminster?bbox=-123.08659,49.11473,...
1: https://turbotax.intuit.ca/tips/deducting-the-cost-of-your-p...
I had almost all those things you mention, internet and cell phone and gym membership, left the heater on 24/7 during winter, did plenty of shitting at home, and still never spent more than $1000 per month.
The only thing I didn't have is a car. A car is literally the worst financial decision you'll ever make. You're free to make it, but you can't come here and complain that cost of living is expensive.
Sucks about the transit tax credit though :/ I used to use that when my commute was by transit
Free heat and hot water is standard in older buildings with central boilers and radiated heating. Otherwise, you're taking on the utilities payment. If there's a separate service or dedicated service, then there's a bill.
If you don't have a car you're still renting a ride share to go hiking or skiing. Transit isn't taking you to Golden Ears or Cypress.
And clearly you've never rented a car with your mates or taken one of the shuttle buses to the mountains.
Renting a car and taking shuttle buses isn't free.
The total cost of living isn't just room and board, it's the expenditures one makes to be happy living and working where they are.
Most people my age don't want a car, we want to live in the city center. People that live with their parents have a car usually, but that's it. It's not a big deal. I get that it can be hard to understand if you've lived in awful car dependent cities your whole life though.
For one thing, I don't plan on living anywhere near one of the big cities.
Ie, Nanaimo was once a small town in central Vancouver island, with low rents and cheap housing. It's now one of the fastest growing cities in Canada[0] and has some of the highest rents and fastest growing rents in BC[1].
Really, here in Canada the situation is changing _fast_. What may have seemed a reasonable market a year ago could have collapsed into unaffordability by now.
Also, as a resident of Nanaimo: be prepared not to have access to Health Care. As a new resident you won't get a family doctor, and the _single_ walk-in clinic stops taking patients early in the morning. The ER is your only option, and often it only has one attending doctor.
This is similar throughout BC outside of Victoria and Metro Vancouver. In no small part because of people like yourself, who are avoiding immigrating to the big cities; but also because of people fleeing the cities.
0: https://nanaimonewsnow.com/2022/02/09/nanaimo-population-jum...
1: https://nanaimonewsnow.com/2022/12/14/rent-prices-in-nanaimo...
You can probably do better but kind of gives you an idea about how big a US vs Canadian gap can get.
Uh, those are two different currencies, and Canada generally has a lower cost of living than the US. I don't see why the Canadian dollar being priced weaker than the US dollar would come into this.
Like, if you compare US vs UK MacBook prices the UK looks way more expensive, but after accounting for VAT they're basically the same.
And that's before taxes.
And American stores will not ship those sorts of items to Canada.
However, I’d read up on the healthcare shortage and high housing costs first though
I'm already aware of the healthcare issues and the housing costs. I have a region picked out that mitigates some of that.