Argos Catalogue Kettle Pages, 1976/1985 (2017) | Hacker News Reader

Argos Catalogue Kettle Pages, 1976/1985 (2017)

wearethemutants.com

48 pointsJdeBP47 comments

Amongst the upper working class, the argos catalogue featured as a central part of holiday (christmas esp.) life until perhaps the mid-2000s.

You could walk into any argos and take one of the 1000pg+ catelogues of massive pallets of them, and paw them over days.

The working class, typically unsentimental in the UK, would then purchase the child's designated item for xmas. The pretence of "santa clause", i think, more often a middle class ritual.

Kind of off topic but the actual "Santa isn't real" moment for me was that some children really believed it. To us, it was always on the same level as the fairies (led by BDFL Tinkerbell, obviously) in my grandmother's garden or the tooth fairy: fun to imagine but clearly, literally, make-believe and I thought everyone was just playing up to the same fun thought-experiment.

And, indeed, the Argos catalogue was, for me, pored over all year round. In turn I discovered the multi-volume RS print catalogue and real desire set in. Sadly Santa didn't have a trade account so took a while to scam an account that permitted no-lower-limit free shipping.

I had the same feeling about God at a Christian camp.

Most children do not know what a "thought-experiment" is. I actually feel very sorry for you and other children who never believed.

Well I didn't know it was called that at the time. If I recall, a book, perhaps Alice in Quantumland, or some other similar book named the idea for me eventually. I also didn't know how what oxygen was called, once upon a time, and somehow managed to breathe.

Anyway, I feel grateful to my parents that they managed to feed imagination without deceit, and I also appreciated that gifts came from my parents, some requested, some unbidden and all with love.

You said "I thought everyone was just playing up to the same fun thought-experiment" which implies you did that thinking at the time. I'm not questioning whether you knew how to breathe or understood the mechanics of it. I can only go by the information you provided.

Your reply even shows you don't understand the magic of Christmas that some children felt.

> I feel grateful to my parents that they managed to feed imagination without deceit

You're framing this deceit as a bad thing. What do you think about parents pretending a child's spoon is an airplane?

Haha yes. I would spend months looking through that catalogue in the lead up to Christmas, comparing and cross checking items and descriptions and cost. I remember some items always felt out of reach like the Casio TV remote watch[1].

Someone has also scanned almost all Argos magazines from 70s to mid 90s - https://retromash.com/argos/

1: p100 item 14 https://issuu.com/retromash/docs/argossuperstore-1995-autumn...

Very fond memories of sitting on the floor in my granny's terraced house, looking through the argos and index catalogues, and dreaming of what I might ask for for Christmas. 1989, and the drop out "innovations" catalog was what I was really searching for, with its incredible technological marvels like Olivetti personal organisers.

Argos pioneered a new form of catalogue retail where customers made their order in one of the company’s high-street shops before waiting for their items to be brought out from the warehouse at the rear.

Sounds a lot like the British version of the U. S.'s Service Merchandise[0]. Write down your order on a little sheet of paper, hand it to store personnel, wait for your items to come rolling down the roller ramp.

On an unrelated note, but from TFA:

In 1979, 42% of British citizens lived in council housing

Wait a minute, wut? Explain to this former colonist what cultural cue he's missing, because how is it possible that 42% of a country's population lives in public housing? Or is it not "public housing", as in U. S.-style subsidized housing? Or were times just that bad in Great Britain in the 70s? EDIT: thanks for the context, responders. Apologies if I worded it poorly.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_Merchandise

Not sure it's classed as "times that bad" (although the 70's weren't great), but more a political decision that people of less means could have affordable housing.

Then Thatcher allowed people to buy their council houses, and we are where we now are.

Asking if things were 'just that bad' is a bit of a value judgement. Yes, they were 'just that bad', but from WWII to 70s the view that the government _should_ be involved in things like housing was a lot more prevalent in the UK than it is now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_house

That was in 1979, the 42%, it's nothing like that now. But yes they are / were greatly subsidised housing. This was after a period of massive home building and the introduction of the welfare state after WW2.

I don't think Britain was a shining economic example back then (it was known as the sick man of Europe), but council houses seemed rather a good thing.

My mother's parents were given one in the late 50's, where they raised four children and my grandparents resided until there deaths 50+ years later. Although council housing still exists it's much rarer now, and your chances of recreating what my grandparents had are slim to none.

Not sure there is a lot of subsidy for council/housing association housing. Building costs paid back over 60 years or so generally. Perhaps land may be allocated?

> Wait a minute, wut? Explain to this former colonist what cultural cue he's missing, because how is it possible that 42% of a country's population lives in public housing? Or is it not "public housing", as in U. S.-style subsidized housing? Or were times just that bad in Great Britain in the 70s?

There were a few factors.

1. Yes, many people were very poor. Today, many Britons are still very poor.

2. In the war, an awful lot of housing was destroyed. Entire towns (Harlow and Milton Keynes are prominent examples) were built from open countryside to house the displaced. The overwhelming majority of this housing remained in government ownership until Thatcher's 'Right to Buy' reforms, which are the origin of the present housing crisis in the UK.

3. Prior to the war, the United Kingdom was the most densely populated country on Earth; during the war, people 'mucked in' to help each other during the nationwide trauma of Total War[0], and after the war, returning servicemen and servicewomen demanded that the sacrifices made amount to something. The governments formed by the Labour Party from 1945 to 1980 instituted a great many social reforms - the National Health Service, expansion of state schooling, social care, and so on - that made good on these demands, and were seen as improvements to the nation, rather than government overreach.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_war

They also introduced the Town and Country Planning Act of 1947, which made it illegal to build any kind of housing or modify existing housing without asking permission from the government. We would not need council housing nowadays if the private sector were simply allowed to fill the market demand. We are no longer in the days when children played in the rubble of cities flattened by the Luftwaffe.

Blaming Thatcher is too kind to the current government. They're the ones who keep listening to nimbys. Thatcher's mistake is that she didn't go far enough; axing the 1947 Act and its descendants should have been part of the supply-side reforms.

The fondness for council housing is an example of a peculiar psychological coping mechanism of Britons, stemming from imperial decline. We pretend a necessary evil was something positively desirable all along. The Americans are right, it is actually embarrassing to have 42% of your population in state-owned housing, I'm sorry to say.

One counterpoint to this is Lisbon, with its unregulated building codes. If you’ve shoulder barged a doorway that’s too narrow, looked out of a window that’s one third obscured by a brick wall, or sat on the can and had your knees hit the walls, you’ll know what I mean.

Planning and standards aren’t quite the same thing, but unregulated building has negative consequences on quality if not quantity. Does terrible Portuguese architecture go hand in hand with an abundance of affordable housing?

This is a common fallacy trotted out by opponents of planning deregulation. They conflate it with building codes, as if the planning laws have anything to do with health and safety, fire mitigation, and so on.

The example we should look to is Japan. Being a country prone to earthquakes and tsunamis, they have rigorous building codes. But they have very loose planning restrictions. Meaning, so long as you make the building safe and habitable, you have a great deal of latitude to build what you want, by right, within an urban or suburban area.

https://twitter.com/380kmh/status/1638247647776473089

https://twitter.com/AntBreach/status/1121362679367598080

It is that key phrase "by right" which is lacking in the UK. You cannot build anything by right. This must change.

Please no-one pay this extreme ideological crankery any note.

feel free to give a counterargument anytime

>Explain to this former colonist what cultural cue he's missing, because how is it possible that 42% of a country's population lives in public housing?

Because they criminalized private construction of housing. It can only be done after a lengthy procedure where you beg for permission from a bureaucrat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_and_Country_Planning_Act_...

>The Act established that planning permission was required for land development; ownership alone no longer conferred the right to develop the land.[1]

The UK between 1945 and 1985 was practically a communist country. The government owned significant portions of industry, housing, healthcare, transport, manufacturing etc. Vital industries including coal, steel, water, electricity, gas, railways, and airlines were nationalized under the Labour government's program following the Second World War. The National Health Service (NHS) was established in 1948, offering government-funded healthcare to all residents.

IIRC correctly in the early 80s the highest tax band was 95%.

I asked GPT4 to convince me that the UK was actually a communist nation during that time, but it won't bite: "While the UK did assert considerable control over various industries from 1950 to 1980 (paralleling elements of communist societies), its democratic governance, surviving private industry, and support of property rights exhibit significant deviations from true communism. The era could more accurately be described as an age of robust social democracy." (emphasis mine)

Argos were well ahead of the curve shopping tech wise which formed a large part of the reason that Sainsburys bought them.

While Amazon was being pleased as punch about offering next day delivery on items (actual delivery time highly variable) Argos was offering completely reliable _same day_ delivery.

It is quite amazing how smooth the process is, even if you cant get same day delivery you will invariably be able to get same day pickup. In extreme cases even if the item is not in stock locally if you order early enough in the day their logistics are so good they can move it same day to your local store for collection for zero extra charge.

I get all my high end electronics through Argos as then I don't have to run the "is it fake" gauntlet with Amazon. Highly recommend.

I actually briefly worked on the backend of Sainsbury's/Argos supply chain data infrastructure

Wow, what a trip. The Russell Hobbs chrome-on-copper (number 11, first page of the '76 catalog) is like a wormhole to my childhood kitchen. I remember that red rocker switch so clearly now, how it felt to turn it on and off. It was beautifully spring loaded, so you'd push it a bit then the spring would take over and snap it on. My mum taught me how to make her a cup of tea when I was old enough to reach it - well before I liked the stuff.

Was going to say the same thing, only ours was the stainless steel one (No. 10). Lasted us well into the 90s.

> you'd push it a bit then the spring would take over and snap it on.

Ah, a proper toggle switch! I thought they had gone the way of the dodo.

I mean they did, the kettle was built in 1976 :)

Argos was originally a promotional scheme called "Green Shield Stamps", whereby you could only buy things from them via stamps, which were a perk of buying other things at other retailers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Shield_Stamps

on a slightly related note, Argos pulled out of the Irish market on 24th June 2023. I think a mix of Brexit and competition from Amazon and other online retailers was the final nail in the coffin. It could never compete on price, but did have a large selection of stuff...

The actual physical locations mostly only exist within Sainsbury's now *in the UK, and apparently

> The lack of a Sainsbury’s presence in the Republic of Ireland was one of the deciding factors when it came to this decision

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-41169112...

Wow, these take me back.

I'm particularly elated to see the good ol' Goblin Teasmade there. It's an alarm clock that wakes you up with a freshly made pot of tea. What could be more British than that?

They used to have them as prizes on TV game shows. Seems laughable now, the idea that anyone (other than me) would get excited by the thought of winning a Teasmade.

We never had one because my mum thought they'd burn the house down while we slept...

I take the final paragraph with a huge grain of salt, having had an older relative who lived through it describe to me the hugely aspirational atmosphere of the U.K. in the 1950s and 1960s.

We cannot deduce history from the pages of one company's sales catalogue, merely the changing fortunes of that company; nor from a piece of fairy cake.

But, since people who lived through this time are still alive we have oral history and other approaches.

I think this catalogue is illustrative of an ideal. And, other catalogues will tell a similar story.

As a child of prior times I certainly recognised social coding in the change from old kitchen ware to new. The utility function of Teflon was high but the ability to signal "I can afford to buy new things" was also high.

Tupperware was pure utility function in colours, but it failed to signify success. Snobs like me rather looked down on it (shamefully, I regret my past)

Tupperware was pure utility function in colours, but it failed to signify success. Snobs like me rather looked down on it (shamefully, I regret my past)

It is an unfortunate outcome of the sales and marketing of Tupperware (multi-level marketing). So the ecosystem of Tupperware was looked down upon, similar to Amway. And if you have Tupperware, then you have been to a Tupperware party. The upper crust, I am confident, do not attend Tupperware parties.

But the products themselves? Awesome quality and functionality...at least they used to be.

Elizabeth II kept her breakfast cereal in Tupperware — this article probably just means commodity plastic food storage, but maybe HM sent out secret shoppers to Knightsbridge parties?:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/may/20/what-th...

This American would very much like a 3kW electric kettle.

The laminated book of dreams.

Argos had a website put up where you could browse every one of their published catalogues. I think they put it up in 2020 to commemorate the ending of their printed catalogue.

Alas, they weren't PDF or any sort of download and the website was discontinued shortly thereafter. Quite the shame; what I'd do to see the 2005 or 2007 catalogues again!

All those kettles from the 70s look realy well made. Maybe it’s the abundant chrome.

How unprofitable. Much better to use bits of metallised plastic which flake to death in a few years. Cheaper to make and those suckers'll be back soon enough.

You can probably fix the flex properly too, new ones often have a moulded captive boot in the cable instead of a screw clamp.

Using plastic is much better, especially for the parts in contact with water. You wouldn't want boiling water in contact with metal, it might leach chemicals that would end up in your system

Huh? Millions of cooks every day boil liquid in metal pans. What’s the issue?

Exactly the reverse.

If your water is acidic enough to leach stainless steel, you have bigger issues than the chromium.

Last time I bought a kettle my wife did her nut because I went for the 20 quid option rather than spending £80 on some prop from a lifestyle magazine, however I maintain that my reasoning was sound - all modern kit is indeed built with a depressingly imminent obsolescence, to which price point confers only limited immunity, and this is exacerbated by the brutal hardness of London water, which will scale and calcify any appliance that so much as looks at it.

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