Consider buying a scenic French village and make into a startup/hacker haven?
newsfeed.time.com
newsfeed.time.com
If you love restoring old buildings, knock yourself out; but otherwise I'd be very careful. Check what the impact of heritage laws is.
Definitely not a place to build a startup. That's one of the reasons there are no high profile startups in France: there's way too many obstacles, most french people who are serious about creating one usually leave the country.
Edit: oh, and I forgot that, in France, making money on your own, is very badly regarded. You would be assumed to be rich and evil, by default. (I am not inventing anything. Just check french forums/newspapers whenever there are economic news).
Very recently the court has also refused the right to fire employees to a french affiliate of a multinational company, on the basis that, overall, worldwide, the company was still making profit. This, regardless of how healthy the french affiliate was.
That's how perverted the situation is.
I don't know the situation in France, but in Germany the Arbeitsgerichte (employment courts) are rather cheap for both parties (unless you opt for the most expensive lawyer around, of course - however that might not help the case that you're really bleeding money).
As for the multinationals and their local branches: For one, I doubt that this court's decision applies universally (case law isn't typical in continental Europe), and even then, we'd have to see the circumstances of the case.
I could imagine that the court found that money was extracted from the french affiliate (eg. using somewhat dubious licensing agreements) with the implied purpose to make the franch branch look weak enough that it can do all kinds of restructuring (such as reducing work force).
With such tight coupling between the two corporations (why should the french affiliate hand over money for nothing if it's not just a branch of the parent Co.?), one can expect that money flows back to aid the affiliate, too.
But that's speculation (one way or the other).
1. Government sponsoring startups. That sounds like soviet union. Remember, it's the same government that has a huge debt of thousands of billions of euros? That money won't last forever. It's going to be very expensive to get funds of the market for France, and they will have to cut into the sponsorship sooner or later. Not reliable.
2. It takes a long time to set up a company in France. NOt only the administrative tasks themselves, but getting to know what you need to do takes time prior to take action. It's not straightforward and there is not a single place to go to.
3. High taxes. High taxes are high taxes, no matter what you compare them to. Look at what an employer has to pay to the State before even paying a single employee. It's scary.
4. Talent pool. I don't argue on that point, you can find good people. Just like in every developed country with a relatively efficient education system, by the way.
5. This only mentions the trial period and the time when the employee is under a temporary contract. The situation is very different once that person is under a CDI (unlimited duration contract). Then they can take sick leave whenever they want to, and it will be very difficult to get rid of a non-performing employee. It's a fact.
6. Funny point. Most of those startups are virtually unknown internationally. And Dailymotion was bought over by a semi-public company (Orange), a well known public enemy of innovation and champion of statu quo. For a fact, there's no Twitter, no Facebook, no Google in France. Not even anything close to that.
Yeah, you are right, that says a lot about the startup investment scene in France.
Next time you want to call my claims a FUD, please find better links.
1. Your first point is totally moot ... go check the debt of the United States and we'll talk again. I'm not even talking about your "Soviet union" totally closed political view.
2. I'd argue that it'll take a long time to set up a company anywhere when you don't know the customs of the country. Of course, language is an additional barrier, but I'm pretty sure I'd manage to set up a startup quickier in France than in the US, just because I'm French. Same for you in your own country. Big deal.
3. If you don't understand that the tax system is totally different, and that it means you won't have to make a 401k (I think that the name right ?) and buy your employees social security, I can't do anything for you. Once again, you are very biased towards a very specific type of system.
4. Great that you agree.
5. As it is said, trial periods are standard in any permanent contract, if after 6 months you still don't know that you don't like your employee, I'm sorry, but I can't do anything for you.
6. A point you could make for almost any non-English speaking country.
No, that's objectively false:
http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings
France isn't that bad, but it's not as good as it could be.
5. That does not solve the problem of flexibility of hiring and firing. If the context becomes unfavorable and your company bleeds money, you will not be able to get rid of some of your workforce easily, so your business will bleed even faster. Its as simple as that, and its not like startups face no competition huh?
6. Totally disagree. Baidu in China. Gree in Japan. I can find other examples if needed.
5. Protection against firing at will is different than not being able to fire at all. It happens everyday, and no, it does not always end up in court.
6. I have no clue what Gree is. Baidu is famous yes, but have you ever used it ? I haven't. It's used exclusively in China.
For the other points, I'm happy to see you didn't find anything to say.
My point is not that some things could nto be better done in France, just that there is a lot of half truth (that's an understatement) lying around.
5. I did not say it is impossible to fire someone, I said you have to go in great lengths to do so, and you may end up in court as well to justify your actions. This happens more often than not in France. You know the "Prud'hommes", right ?
6. I mentioned high profile startups in the first place. Not used at international level. My aim was to show that there were very few local competitors in France to the Internet giants. Baidu is a clear competitor of Google in China (and larger than Google, anyway). Gree is the number 1 provider of online games in Japan. I could also mention Mixi, a social network in Japan at least as big as Facebook in the country, if not more (while I am not aware of the latest share).
For the other points, I did not answer because I was writing from my phone and could not spend time to answer everything. Anyway, it should be obvious that in France, the PME (small and medium companies) sector is minimal compared to other developped countries. Startup belong in that field, and it is clear that if the climate for small companies was more favorable, there would be more of them. Hence my claim "not the best place to fund a startup" in my original post.
There are probably worse places than France, but clearly better choices outside as well, that's why you have a "fuite des cerveaux" going on for several years: those who are ambitious do not want to deal with useless administrative obstacles. They want to focus on their business, full time.
They got venture capital by Innovacom (not a government agency) and then just got bought by Ubisoft (not a government company).
As for big startups known in France (and not necessarily internationally), well, Meetic is one of them for instance. Or vente-privee.com. I guess you could even put OVH in there.
2. France ranks 29 on doing business, and 25 on starting a business. Not ideal, but not bad. It takes about a week, in total, if you know your stuff. I don't know much about it, because it's all in French. C'est la vie. http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings.
3. Total tax rate is high. Labor tax is outstandingly high. But salaries are kind of low (because high taxes = low wages).
4. No idea. All countries have talent. You might struggle for people with lots of web startup experience.
5. France's labor law looks a little scary.
6. Yeah.
Overall, the problems are that the government sucks all the good people into its inefficient investments, and that French labor law is more suited to large companies. Its health system is an advantage over the US, for SMEs though - everyone pays about the same amount (through somewhat high income taxes - which is really the employee's problem).
I'm a fan of safety nets, but not of officious labor law.
A long time ago, the French decided that quality of life, and taking an easier path was simply more important than the economic, military, and to a lesser extent cultural dominance of the US. As a result, French people live generally better quality of life, but the very ambitious don't get as rewarded as in the US. You will find French of all stripes in the US who seek to live in the US because they can be rewarded more than in France.
It is a cultural choice. But let's not deny the effect.
In France you have 35 hour work-week, siesta, lots of vacations, health care, bloated government. But there is very little entrepreneur ism. The French fell in love with the large corporation and large government.
That actually seems like a huge deal. Most U.S. states are at-will, so you can pretty much fire anyone at any time. I would not want to be stuck in an unforeseen cash flow or retooling situation 8 months in and be unable to do anything about hiring.
You should not be in a position where a cashflow issue means you cant meet payroll or you will fail anyway.
There may be startups, but there appear to be zero home runs...
This looks like 80's way of thinking maybe :)
As a matter of fact, I was thinking of just that the other day, coming back in my village in a couple of years and try to start a hackers/startup/"IT" hub ... (maybe just starting with a hackathon or something similar).
You could wonder who would be interested ? And how the locals would react ?
Well, first, you have to imagine being in the countryside, being able to take a bike, roam in the woods, go on the river ... Then there is complete silence (like, really really silent). And of course, the food.
There's also a plan (although I think it's partially on hold right now) to have fiber everywhere. And no doubt that the local administration would help with that if you have a serious projects.
As for the locals, they are very friendly, the only thing they ask is that you take part in the community (for instance, buy at the local bakery or butcher). In the area I come from, there has been a steady stream of Dutch people buying secondary houses for the last 20 years. They all enjoy it, and are very welcome.
Yes, there is a language barrier, but this can definitely be overcome with good will from both sides (I've seen it in action).
Anyway, just a thought ...
http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/17455927/40-Hague-Detroit-MI/
Detroit already has the Madison building which is filling with VC's and their portfolio companies.
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/detroit-madison-t...
If people left the place there's a clear reason for that. Money is not going to bring back interest in a long-dead location. Unless you make it like a new Las Vegas.
-- reasonable short-term accommodation, e.g., high-end youth hostel type
-- Shared office space e.g., Dogpatch Labs or General Assembly style
-- good internet and coffee
-- permission to work (visas, etc)
We are 2 couples of hackers/entrepreneurs located here:
http://bit.ly/zZLmrH (google maps link)
What we like about here:
- cheap yet nice houses compared to the rest of France (with gardens, woods, swimming-pools)
- well balanced climate (sunny on summer but not too hot, comfortable in winter usually)
- plenty of good food and quality restaurants
- Paris is not too far if needed (although I work almost 100% remotely)
- sea is not too far
We're not alone: I came across more and more entrepreneurs who are moving to rural areas to enjoy good quality life.
May I ask you if you did grow up in the area ? Or in a similar area ?
My point is, for someone that grew up in a (big) city, it might not be easy to adapt
On the startup + girlfriend: I wouldn't try to "convince" but rather see if it would be a good fit. My girlfriend and I are now associates: we're doing remote consulting and bootstrapping https://www.wisecashhq.com. We first gave this a try for one year, to see if things were good for us. After one year we bought a house here, as we were really happy.
On the city: I know some people from big city who do not adapt well, while other (still from big cities) did adapt very well. It's just something to think about then test, planning a rollback if it's not for you.
One important point for us is that apart from the consulting , our business project is really something we work on as a couple.
As for a startup haven? Stranger things have happened.
somehow I think making it a hacker haven won't do anything to endear you with the locals ...
If you go to Berlin, you'll discover many hackers are both also ravers and squatters. If you go to a security conference, you'll find many that are thieves.
I'm sure the people hanging out there are fine. :-)
Sure, most Westerners can enter the Schengen zone for 90 days visa-free but after that you've either got to leave for another 90 (or is it 180?) or get sponsorship of some sort.
(Obviously this is a rather Amero-centric reply and doesn't apply to other EU citizens)
Visa is probably a favourable thing in comparison to Thailand / Philippines ...
As a dad, I am personally very happy to pay taxes in exchange for the overall infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads, doctors, health insurance etc) and (edit) food :) (although I really dig thai food).
I will probably move half-time to such a place though, once my kids have left school :)
Once a property "sinks" (becomes worth less than its back taxes), its over.