Titan sub vs. refugee trawler: how much is a human life worth? | Hacker News Reader

Titan sub vs. refugee trawler: how much is a human life worth?

marxist.com

40 pointsmedo-bear21 comments

I agree with this article, however I think a big part of the intense media focus and rescue operation was the mystery surrounding it and the impending deadline where they would run out of oxygen.

Other examples of similar stories are the disappearance of Nicola Bulley (who appeared to completely vanish) and the Thai school children that got stuck in the cave.

These stories pull huge levels of public interest and therefore media coverage and that then compels the relevant authorities/organisations to take disproportionate action.

[1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nicola-bulle...

Exactly more like how many clicks is a particular event worth.

There is actually simple explanation for both.

Submarine got lot of undeserved attention. In my country it is called "cucumber season", when basically non-event will get lot of coverage because lack of other events, usually during summer.

The migrant trawler has cynical, but simple explanation too. Refugee are coming to Europe since 2014. They are often behaving entitled towards Europeans, assaulting them, especially women and girls. Thus few of them drowning in the sea does not create any compassion in Europeans. It is ugly truth, but when my neighbor will be making my life living hell for years and then his house catches fire, I am not going to feel compassion either.

A key tenet of international law is that collective punishment is prohibited and criminal responsibility can only be attributed to individuals. Freedom of movement, presumption of innocence, and respect for basic human dignity are all part of the UN Declaration of Human Rights. It is not just to treat the non-criminals like they are criminals a priori. But, I will say, I can confirm that I have definitely also seen that sentiment of scapegoating on the rise.

I don't want to sound like an unhinged Tea Party loon, but what about Benghazi? The instability from which the migrants are running away from was fanned by European policies.

It's pure racism. At least in my sourthern european corner, I keep hearing screeds about low birth rates, how rural lands are empty, turning into deserts, but then thousands and thousands of people are willing to pay thousands of euros to move to Europe and there are no legal options. At the same time, Russian oligarchs can claim to be descendant of 16th century Jews expelled by the king and they get a passport, or just buy overpriced real estate and you are automatically a national.

Just undercut the criminals! They charge 5k for the trip? Sell a work permit and a plane ticket for the same amount of money.

> The media would not be reconciled to the idea that such eminent persons should suffer such a cruel fate.

You're imposing your own narrative here. The interest was driven by the Titanic and deep sea exploration. Whomever the six people were means nothing. I've watched documentaries about this type of Titanic exploration and now the subject of those documentaries is part of a slowly developing catastrophe.

Precisely, the story of the Titanic is nearly ubiquitous. A fair amount of Americans probably couldn’t even locate the Mediterranean on a map.

I think this is a very misleading analysis.

For example, when the 3 year old refugee was found drowned on a beach, every media outlet had pictures of his father cradling the lifeless body of his son. It received a lot of coverage.

In terms of drama of knowing what happened it is not about how wealthy the men were but more about the uncertainty. For example, there was similar coverage with the children in the Amazon from the place crash, and those children are not rich.

I respectfully disagree.

While the dead boy was a tragedy it only got coverage because a handful of powerful photos made it marketable.

Perhaps there is a similar macabre marketability to watching people slowly dying in a cave or in a mine or a sub and that is one thing.

For me the disproportionate response of authorities to save rich people in jeopardy compared to poor is the thing I find most disturbing.

It could be argued that both chose to accept the danger but one for entertainment the other to escape a life of poverty or persecution. Yet, we will move mountains to rescue the thrill seeker and casually look the other way for the migrant.

Knowing now that everyone knew those on the sub were dead from the instant they died yet persisted with the efforts/theater to save them makes me sick.

Honestly, I blame myself as well. When the US Coast Guard released a statement that they would not send a ship until after the sub was located, I thought to myself that does not seem right. Of course they already knew the sub was lost.

> Yet, we will move mountains to rescue the thrill seeker and casually look the other way for the migrant.

Because one happens all the time and the other doesn't. If rich people get on a submarine after 100 submarines have vanished trying the exact same thing, no one would care. Do you know how many people die on Mt. Everest each year? No one cares and that's pretty much also reserved for rich people due to the high price.

I agree that deaths of tourists on Everest no longer get much coverage but I think that has much to do with the typical suddenness of thier deaths.

If an American thrill seeker was lost on Everest or slowly suffocating at the summit in a timeline that allowed news coverage it would be a bing thing.

I dont know the realities of climbing but it would not surprise me to find that tourists in distress get air lifted out of basecamp 1 while Nepalis don't.

Your question seems to betray you - "How much" indeed... You seem to expect that a human life should be valued on the same scale as material goods - in dollars.

What changes would someone have to make in themselves in order to discover the real value of life? If they were to make those changes, would they be better off?

Thought provoking article.

Odd that it's been flagged, though.

There is a lot of flagging happening lately.

I want to hear about adventurers in submarines. Lots of people share my feeling. Therefore, that’s what will be covered.

It’s not about whose life matters. It’s just about viewers.

Hmm are they refugees if they flee a relatively stable land, and cross a dozen stable countries before they get on that boat? Perhaps there’s another word we can use?

The language here has changed quite a bit in recent times. There used to be a clear distinction between people who flee immediate danger and people who leave their home country for a better life elsewhere. The terms refugee, migrant, economic migrant and everything else get means the same thing now, basically. I think that's 100% intentional.

It's not that different, mostly just the timescale. A "classic" refugee in homeland would be dead swiftly by war or for political reasons. A "realtively stable land" refugee would be killed slower due to no/bad healthcare, slavery, crime rates, corruption. And when you will be an unlawful refugee anyways, why not choose the best economies?

I empathize with every individual taking on this journey, and I feel for them. Everyone deserves an attempt at a happy life and for some this is the only way. I cannot say that if I were in their shoes, I’d act any differently.

That being said, the framing here has changed a lot recently so I was commenting on the terms used.

Didn't Stalin say (roughly), "One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic" ?

what does stalin have to do with this article

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