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Comment by dirtyaura | Hacker News Reader

I suppose it's more a cultural issue - no Finn would read that post as seriously as you did. Many would consider it hilarious. It's quite typical in informal Finnish way of speaking to use "dark" metaphors, and granted they come out a little bit clumsy in English, but I know a lot of Finnish coders who express themselves with similar language that Torvalds does. I remember a few incidents from my Nokia career where this caused "issues" when we were communicating with Nokia employees in US over the email.

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It's the same in US English. The issue is just that there are 1-10% of people who are sensitive to the issue, and computing has grown from a small club of close friends/enemies/frenemies to a more mainstream activity, there is a growing call for being more welcoming and "politicallyy correct" tone in conversation.

For example, on the official Mozilla Bugzilla, diverting from technical debate to non-technical vitriolic commentary is a bannable offense, regardless of the value of the user's technical contribution.

It's just a toxic way of communicating, and if someone can't package their thoughts for public consumption, it may be better to keep their thoughts (semi-)private and leave it to someone more tactful to spread the word more widely and effect positive change.

I think this is quite different from "political correctness" as the term is typically used, which is regarding issues of gender, ethnicity, political opinion, etc.

It's the same in US English

I don't agree. I've never thought of it before, but to be honest, in my 25 years of life, I've never seen the kind of behavior Linus is famous for on the part of anyone besides Europeans. (Most of whom, I should add, do not appear to be this way.)

That dark and exaggerated sense of humour is common at least amongst Brits, Irish, Aussies & Kiwis.

However I wouldn't say it isn't in the US. Most Boston & some New York stand-up comedians I have seen seem to have a similar personality. Maybe this is self selecting, but the US comedians I have seen from these areas tend to have that same personality.

I really don't think this is a big deal..

I'm not talking about comedians, for pete sake. I'm talking about software development in a professional context.

So why are you talking about professional context on a story about a post in a personal profile on a social network?

Apparently people in the public eye are not allowed to have personal opinions.

Come on guys, this was fully intended to be a public statement and I think there are hundreds of comments on it (too lazy to check now).

In case you didn't know everything you post here is also public.

Yes.... what's your point?

Is a google plus posting proffesional context. He didn't like how suse implemented it and then flames bigotted secrutiy people in general.

don't see any personal attack.

I don't agree. I've never thought of it before, but to be honest, in my 25 years of life, I've never seen the kind of behavior Linus is famous for on the part of anyone besides Europeans.

Really? Does Lenny Bruce qualify? How about Dennis Leary? (Well, he is of Irish descent, I'll give you that).

Hani Suleiman, of the Bile Blog fame?

http://javablogs.com/views/ViewBlog.action?id=11454

Definitely not a European.

How about The Filty Critic?

http://www.bigempire.com/filthy/

And don't get me started on Hunter S. Thompson and co.

[EDIT] Fk, how could I forget Maddox and the "Best Page in the Universe": http://maddox.xmission.com/

Not familiar with those people except Thompson.

Well, the Filthy Critic is quite known on the interwebs. And BileBlog was quite read back in the day by Java devs. But, ok, those are minor websites.

But, you must have heard of Lenny Bruce (they even made him into a movie starring Dustin Hoffman) and Denis Leary. Comedian, had starred in a few movies, and had a tv series that made it into 7 seasons...

I think you're talking about a totally different context than I am.

Not sure. You wrote "I've never seen the kind of behavior Linus is famous for on the part of anyone besides Europeans.", which in the context of the threads, means things like him saying "kill yourself".

Well, those guys, all non Europeans and most Americans, are some random and well known examples of similar --if not identical-- harsh talk as joke/commentary.

My point is that these OpenSUSE guys, software developers, created a free distribution (some were employed by SUSE no doubt and some not, doesn't matter), and Linus shows his thanks this way?

I'm actually talking specifically about the context of kernel hacking. I always thought it was just the "kernel hacker culture" and it never occured to me to see it along geographical lines until someone pointed out that it's apparently commonly accepted in Finland to talk to people this way in a professional context.

Now, of COURSE comedians and schoolyard bullies and people like that say all kinds of nasty shit, all over the world. I really had the Linux kernel hacking community in mind, which I follow somewhat, but I assumed it was clear from context that I was talking about "software development" at least.

Oh, sorry, I took the thread was meant to address the whole geographical/cultural difference, not just with regards to the kernel list.

I mean, other guys commented in general that "That dark and exaggerated sense of humour is common at least amongst Brits, Irish, Aussies & Kiwis." etc. And it's not as Linus posted that on the kernel list either.

You forgot Bill Hicks. Given the original quote that Javert took offense to I think it's a pretty good example. And I'm not 100% sure he was joking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo

In the professional gaming scene when you beat someone in a match you also say "I raped him hard" and nobody thinks of it as a real rape.

I'm aware of several people that have been driven away from gaming by this kind of culture. It's not as harmless as it seems from the inside, I think.

If you say it in-game at an official tournament you may be punished for that. But casters say this from time to time without feeling bad.

I don't think it's the same in US English, I think the parent is right. Here in Buenos Aires one can say "kill yourself" (which would be "matate" in the rioplatense dialect of Spanish) for almost anything and nobody would bat an eye. In English, it sounds/looks pretty harsh, at least to my non native ears/eyes.

That is his personal Google+ profile. I am not sure if he would ask people to kill themselves (even if he is harsh) in a mailing list or other open forums..

I guess you could also reverse the idea: if someone is offended by every cultural difference, maybe one should refrain from... living in a multi-cultural world?

What is "public consumption" anyway? I don't want to have everyone communicating through death threats but I also want even less for everyone to sound like a PR representative.

Maybe the solution is to simply understand the cultural differences?

When I see Torvalds say these things in a video - the one where he slags off subversion being the famous example - it's obvious to me that he's not being serious. But it seems much more arrogant, threatening even, written down, without the other cues.

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