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Comment by nozzlegear | Hacker News Reader

I’m curious how other vegetarians and vegans feel about eating lab-grown meat? My gut reaction to this is “yuck, meat” [1]. I’ve been following lab-grown meat for a while and haven’t been able to get over this feeling, and for that reason I don’t think I’ll include it in my diet as a vegetarian. Intellectually I know that no animal was killed to produce it, but after going without meat for so long I just find the thought of eating it almost repulsive now.

[1] Now I wonder if this is how everyone with a normal omnivore diet reacts to all those plant-based meats.

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> I’m curious how other vegetarians and vegans feel about eating lab-grown meat?

Focusing only on the opinions about other people: eventually, there is going to be less meat. They're going to get less of this physiologically delightful thing. It's inevitable.

For like 4-8% of the population, like me, they don't need the delight of meat. Fine. But that still leaves 92% who eat meat as long as it is possible to do so. It will be interesting to see how many people become vegan not because of any moral reason, but because it helps them e.g. cope with extraordinarily high prices.

> For like 4-8% of the population, like me, they don't need the delight of meat. Fine. But that still leaves 92% who eat meat as long as it is possible to do so.

Yeah I don't like the look of that ratio. I don't think you guys can reproduce fast enough to feed all of us!

>> It will be interesting to see how many people become vegan not because of any moral reason, but because it helps them e.g. cope with extraordinarily high prices.

My estimate is zero. Prices may reduce certain foods to occasional consumption. I can't speak for other non-vegans, but I'll eat vegan food at times if that's what I go for or if that's what's served by someone. But scarcity will not cause someone to declare themselves vegan IMHO.

Indeed; scarcity is much more likely to make people eat whatever is most available.

Meat price ranges have a relatively hard cap. The rule of thumb for free ranging chickens is about 50 per acre, and they're really easy to train to return to a coop at night, and many breeds are ready to harvest in as little as 6 weeks. So prices can only get so high before somebody starts to see some opportunity there.

Veggie and can't wait. I'm veggie because the meat industry is, on the whole, horrendous to the lives of animals, is an industry of trauma for the people who kill animals day in day out, and because its unsustainable for the planet. I'm not a veggie because I dont think meat tastes great; there's no substitute for he depth of flavour that meat gives.

I've written about this phenomenon specifically with regard to intuitions and vegetarianism. Our intuitions are from system 1 thinking, which includes (for you and me) "yuck, meat". But those intuitions are downstream from things we have worked out from deliberate system 2 thinking.

So when I went vegetarian, it was very much not from an intuitive repulsion from meat (I loved meat), but from deliberate reasoning (system 2). But now that time has passed, I do have the "yuck, meat" response. It's like when you learn 12 x 12 = 144 for the first time, it takes work and effort. But then it becomes intuitive because you're so used to it, and your brain wants to cache that work.

So I imagine that after you reason about it for long enough (system 2), eventually your intuitions will update (system 1).

I think you're spot on, my reaction toward meat is not an intuitive or instinctual human reaction given our evolution. It's something I've developed after becoming vegetarian. Speaking personally, long-running streaks are how I measure success, and my "days since I last ate meat" streak is my longest. This has caused me to develop a tiny paranoia of accidentally eating meat (e.g. ordering an impossible burger and the chef makes a real burger), which reinforces my "yuck, meat" intuition.

I currently don't like the implementation as it relies on FBS, which relies on the unethical practices I became vegetarian (and am becoming vegan) to avoid. The core concept is fine though, and I'd eat it. I didn't make this choice because I hated the taste of meat.

Honestly though, I think vegan meat replacements are pretty much a solved problem already as far as I'm concerned. Between Beyond and Impossible and all the more traditionally made meat substitutes I haven't missed meat in ages.

What I'm really finding difficult to replace, now that I'm trending towards complete veganism, is cheese. Some substitutes work ok in some contexts, but the state of vegan pizza, for instance, is extremely sad.

Generalizing a bit and admitting that this would vary across cultures: most vegans (who turned vegan for ethical reasons and have been vegan for quite sometime) would promote this for people who want to transition as well as to occasionally have this with non-vegans to show them what’s available. Left to themselves, they’d likely abstain from it for the most part since there are still some ethical questions about it (if FBS — fetal bovine serum — is used) and since there are a wide variety of foods already available to them anyway. It could be a once-in-a-while indulgence though.

> Now I wonder if this is how everyone with a normal omnivore diet reacts to all those plant-based meats.

As an omnivore and lifelong enjoyer of meat, the modern meat alternatives like beyond or impossible are great. They don’t reheat well, but the macros are good and they’re super tasty when fresh.

The older stuff tho, yuck. Tastes funky and the macros are all wrong. Much prefer cottage cheese as a protein source, no fake meat required.

And that’s my main gripe with fake meats: there’s a whole world of amazing delicious vegetarian meals that don’t need meat fake or otherwise. I’d much rather have those than a fake steak.

Ironically, my response as an omnivore making the switch to more chicken over beef is “yuck, not meat.” I actually like the vegan (fried) chicken substitutes that are available nowadays as well as stuff like almond cheese that stands on its own.

It’ll take a while to get over the internal resistance to the fact that it’s still basically ultra processed meat substitute. I’ve grown tissue culture in a lab and that does not sound even remotely appetizing to me. It doesn’t even qualify in my mind as a whole food, which is the problem with so many of the vegan substitutes

> I’m curious how other vegetarians and vegans feel about eating lab-grown meat? My gut reaction to this is “yuck, meat”.

Interesting. I am very much a meat eater, and my gut reaction to this is "yuck, fake meat".

I am totally fine with vegan burger patties and such because it's simply processed plant materials. It's not close enough to meat for its fakeness to bother me. This lab grown flesh strikes a very specific note of revulsion.

If our two reactions are common, it would seem they're in a worst-of-both-worlds situation.

lab grown meat is not vegan as it uses FBS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_bovine_serum) as a growth media for all mammalian cells

The cell-cultured meat from Upside Foods uses entirely animal-free growth media.

Ethically I'm all right. If someone put it in my quesadilla by accident I wouldn't throw a fit. But aesthetically I can barely eat an Impossible Whopper because it's too close to the real thing. After years of not eating it I just don't think meat is very good. I used to get food poisoning regularly but not any more.

My partner is veggie, but also into classical yoga, which includes a lot of theory on health and diet.

They believe that food we consume comes first from air/water/sun. Veggies grow in the sun and consume air/water/earth.

She doesn't eat mushrooms or other nightshades because they don't grow in the sun.

It is less about 'meat' and something much simpler... anything that comes from secondary sources, like cows eating grass, shouldn't be eaten.

Since lab grown meat doesn't fall under the air/water/sun conditions, it is an easy no for her.

I don't think it will be cost-competitive with all other means of turning energy into delicious, meat-like and digestible food.

I'm not a vegetarian but my gut reaction is this yuck, you're literally eating tumors. Or am I wrong?

I’m vegetarian and I’m the same, I guess I don’t really see it as food and I don’t have any desire to eat it

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