Ask HN: IP cameras that don't require an app or internet? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: IP cameras that don't require an app or internet?

389 pointsPOCKET_SANDO198 comments

I've been using Amcrest and foscam IP cameras at my home for the past several years. I have then connected to a no internet VLAN with an NVR.

The models I've been using have an ethernet port and wifi. Setup was connecting to the ethernet port and then accessing the web ui in a browser to configure settings (most importantly turning on RTSP or ONVIF feeds). The cameras I have are starting to show their age and a couple of them are starting to fail (PTZ slow or require reboots every few weeks).

I picked up newer models from Amcrest and foscam assuming they would have the same set up procedure (i made sure to get ethernet+wifi models and did research on being RSTP capable) but they all require downloading an app and creating an account to set them up, even if the end configuration is without internet for local video)

The foscam cameras have a web ui that just has links to the app stores and the amcrest cameras don't have any web ui available. I tried directly accessing the RTSP URLs and still no luck. both apps require account creation in order to use.

I've also tried some tp link, wyze and aqara cameras in the past but they all required an app/account. They also had the worst reliability, both in connection stability and physical failure rates.

Does anyone have specific model numbers of currently purchasable (US) IP cameras that genuinely don't require an app and account to set up?

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I have worked professionally with access control and surveillance. I can give you two manufacturer recommendations: Axis and Geovision.

Axis cameras are high end and expensive, but they will, in my experience, do anything an IP camera could reasonably be expected to do, and they will do it well. They are European in origin and are available from various retail outlets to ship this week.

Geovision cameras are low end and not expensive. They are Taiwanese in origin and are pretty easy to find.

I have personally configured a wide range of cameras from both of these manufacturers and I have never needed an app or internet connectivity. It's been a few years since I looked at Geovision's product lineup though, my information is not 100% current. I don't have any specific camera recommendations. If I were setting up a home NVR today, I would buy Geovision cameras and put them on an isolated network.

Both of these manufacturers are nominally ONVIF compliant (ONVIF compliance is a mixed bag and can't be fully trusted from any manufacturer IMO) and have readily accessible RTSP streams

I can second this. I have several Axis M1065-LW cameras inside (running on wall plugs and wifi) and several Axis P1447-LE externally (running on PoE).

Would recommend both of them. Notably, I had one exterior camera fail (wouldn’t run off PoE), and the Axis support/RMA process was smooth and fast.

P1447-LE is sold for over $500 used. What is it that's inside of that camera, which makes it so pricey?!

The fact that someone will reply to your support email and fix bugs?

And not supply your video feed to the CCP.

It's a workhorse. It operates at a decent resolution/FPS, as security cameras go, it can handle pretty much any weather conditions, and Axis will stand by it if it breaks.

It also, relevantly for this thread, will do standard video transmission w/o any cloud/app components.

Most camera you get that are cheaper are trading off in one or more of these areas to recoup cost.

I'm thinking of running outdoor Axis cameras. Do you have any advice or links on how to route these safely, including grounding and surge protection? Mine will be mounting on the roof soffit.

If you're going to use PoE (you should) you can get in line surge protectors. Although to be honest - I've used PoE cameras for years, both in the home and professionally, and never bothered with these. I'm not sure what they're protecting against, unless you think lightning is going to strike the camera itself.

Otherwise its just a single ethernet line from the camera to your switch, Axis cameras (and any others that support PoE and outdoor installs) have a nice shielded bit that the cable goes into at the camera end so its protected from the elements.

I'd advise caution - lightning energy coupled onto a low voltage conductor can set fire to property and possibly harm people. Best to take a conservative approach if it's not your property and other people might be harmed. A direct strike is not necessary to have serious effects.

Maybe I'm just naive, but I've got 5 of them mounted externally. They're attached to in-wall rated CAT6 cable, but otherwise aren't grounded or surge protected. None of them are above 60% of the height of the walls they're mounted on, but even if I mounted them higher I'm not too worried.

To add to this: search the catalog of whatever access control / electronic security wholesaler is local to your country. Almost all stock IP CCTV cameras and peripherals, and it's an easy way to get an idea of what manufacturers produce the cameras you need. Panasonic and Hikvision cameras are also quite good for a more reasonable price than Axis, but I'd agree with the above poster that they are the gold standard in IP CCTV.

Another recommendation for Axis here. I've used dozens of them for almost 20 years now and they've been rock solid, technically and support-wise.

But they're expensive. They do have cheaper models nowadays, though. In addition to explosion-proof ones: https://www.axis.com/en-us/products/explosion-protected-came...

Fun story re: the term "explosion-proof":

I was given a tour of an industrial facility where conditions required explosion-proof equipment. The tour guide made a point of calling out the explosion-proof motors in one of the rooms.

One of the other tour group members asked the question "Why would it matter if these motors survived an explosion?"

I visualized the facility exploding in a fiery blaze and a motor, fully intact, tracing a high parabola into the sky and landing, unscathed, in the front yard of a house.

The tour guide had to awkwardly answer: "Explosion-proof means that it won't cause an explosion."

> "Explosion-proof means that it won't cause an explosion."

Another industry term for this is Intrinsically Safe.

They're not the same. Intrinsically Safe means it has too little energy in it to cause ignition. Explosion-proof can be achieved either by intrinsic safety or an enclosure capable of containing the worst that can happen inside it.[1]

[1] https://blog.pruftechnik.com/intrinsically-safe-vs-explosion...

TIL thanks

I don't think it's a silly question, my first thought about explosion proof would also be able to survive some level of explosion.

Especially for cameras in potentially hazardous or critical areas, being able to capture details of their final moments could be important (obviously great to have cameras which [also] don't cause explosions in the first place).

I can also think of many situations in which you would want motors which are rated to survive for some time through an explosion, for example something which is powering a fire sprinkler or ventilation system to give people time to escape. The military has "battle switches" on lots of equipment for this reason, better to remove safeties and destroy the equipment than have the equipment protect itself and stop working in a critical situation, potentially costing a soldier their life.

It's definitely not a silly question. I shared it because I really enjoyed the image that came to my mind when it happened.

It was a formative experience for me, too. I try really, really hard to explain terms-of-art to my audience if I'm unsure of their familiarity. "Reading the room" can be difficult sometimes so I try to always preface w/ "Stop me if you know this already...".

I also learned not to be afraid to speak up when terminology isn't familiar to me. I've no doubt that's made me look ill-informed in some situations. I'll always take the judgement of others re: my knowledge vs. acting on a bad assumption later.

There are consequences (sometimes significant ones) from assuming somebody knows what you're talking about. People who act like they understand something when they don't (either because they're afraid to ask, or because they don't know they don't understand) are dangerous.

> The tour guide had to awkwardly answer

That bit made me think otherwise.

> I also learned not to be afraid to speak up when terminology isn't familiar to me.

100% agreed. I don't care much if others think I'm stupid. I care about actually being educated and understanding the situation. If someone thinks me asking questions makes me stupid, I'm probably better off with them thinking that and avoiding me for it :)

> > The tour guide had to awkwardly answer

> That bit made me think otherwise.

I could have phrased that better. It was clearly awkward for the tour guide. I think the guide could have handled it in a less awkward way— maybe with some humor.

I found it amusing by way of the image it created in my mind, but that shouldn’t be taken as me discouraging others asking questions.

Interesting. I'd have made the same assumption. GPs link uses the term 'explosion protected', and is definitely talking about the former, being safe in an explosion.

> Explosion-proof means that it won't cause an explosion

Wait, what? The implication is that their other cameras regularly cause explosions?

The term is Intrinsically Safe. It's for equipment that is guaranteed won't be an ignition source, specifically intended for things intended to be operating in confined areas where there's a danger that combustible gases can build up.

To reinforce, this is harder to achieve than it might seem. Sparking in switches and buttons and electrostatic discharge both are kind of invisible in normal environments but can be disaster on an oil rig or in an area of a hospital where pure oxygen is flowing. All the paperwork and monitoring to make sure that the design is correct and that the manufacturing stays within spec costs money too.

It has been certified that it can/shouldn't produce any sparks or arcs in the event that it's in a gas filled room.

That's only for one form of explosion protection. Some methods of protection are for explosion prevention, other forms are mitigation.

Explosion proof / flame proof enclosures don't prevent explosions. Their sole purpose is to contain the explosion and to ensure that the gases escaping from the enclosure do not ignite the surrounding atmosphere. The beauty of a flameproof enclosure is that I can put standard, non-protected electronics into an enclosure and use them in a hazardous area. It's a much more affordable way of deploying electronics into hazardous areas, rather than designing from scratch and certifying.

A regular light switch might spark as you flip it, or a power switch on electronics.

Some electronics use a spark gap as a form of surge protection:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_gap#/media/File:PCB_Spar...

None of that would be acceptable in an environment that requires intrinsically safe equipment.

The electronics also need to be carefully current-limited so there's no chance they overheat and cause an explosion that way too.

Yes. There are non-sparking explosion proof hand tools that need to be used in such environments. Naturally, electronics are a hazard as well.

Think about oil rigs or coal mines where all electronics are potential sources of sparks/arcs and thus explosions.

Coal mining equipment explosion protection is particularly onerous as you have to protect against dust (coal dust) and gas explosions (methane).

>Wait, what? The implication is that their other cameras regularly cause explosions?

Non-explosion protected electronics... sure. All you need is an atmosphere of sufficient concentration and a spark with sufficient ignition energy OR a hot surface that is above the atmosphere's auto ignition temperature (think a hot resistor on a PCB). Some chemicals have absurdly low auto ignition temperatures or ignition energies. Engineers must spec equipment for chemicals they expect to encounter within the hazardous area. Engineers also have to factor in how often the flammable atmosphere will be present. All of this is spelled in out IEC60079 for Europe and RoW. US has their own standards.

> "Explosion-proof means that it won't cause an explosion."

Surely that should be "non-explosive".

Otherwise rain-proof and fire-proof could have interesting overloaded definitions...

One of the "explosion proof" ones even has a little windshield washer/wiper!

XPQ1785

Starts the washer. When the sequence starts, the camera moves to the configured position to receive the wash spray. When the whole wash sequence is completed, the camera returns to its previous position. This icon is only visible when the washer is connected and configured.

Starts the wiper.*

https://help.axis.com/en-us/axis-xpq1785

I'll throw out a word of support for both Geovision and Axis.

My Geovision experience is also not current either. I've got three Customers using their cameras in isolated VLANs w/o Internet access. Both hardware and software reliability have been very good. Some of the outdoor units are coming up on 7 years old and still working fine. I think, in total, there are around 300 (mostly indoor) cameras in all their systems combined.

I work at a site w/ >100 Axis cameras, also w/o Internet access. They're phenomenal devices-- built like tanks-- but very expensive. I particularly like that you get root on the cameras (which are running Linux). There are third-party applications that can run directly on the cameras.

Can also recommend Axis. At work we've got a server with a couple hundred cameras connected and they're extremely reliable. Software is easy to use, regular firmware updates (even for older cameras), and in my few dealings with Axis support they've been great.

> ...regular firmware updates (even for older cameras)...

Such a rarity nowadays--great to hear.

Axis is cool, they once even had (still have?) their own CPU / ISA (ETRAX CRIS) plus a Linux port:

https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/cris/README

Edit: Official Linux support was removed with 4.17 in 2018

https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/6/3/142

The ETRAX CRIS has been superseded by ARM Cortex-M in the latest ARTPEC (Axis Real Time Picture Encoder Chip) chips these days. For a period of time in between those two architectures the ARTPEC chips used MIPS as a core.

Still used a bunch of CRIS cores for ARTPEC-6 for scheduling scaler and trfm jobs and some other things, are they completely gone now?

Can second the Axis recommendation. I've never had problems with them. You can also easily use them with other systems or without Internet.

Classic nit pick triggered by at least some national tech pride: Axis Communications [1] is from Sweden. Founded in 1984, they are pretty cool.

Edit: added missing word.

[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_Communications

I did a fairly generic search for Geovision and landed on this: https://www.acronis.com/en-us/blog/posts/backdoor-wide-open-...

(not to fear-monger, just something to note)

> Acronis’ security team found four critical vulnerabilities in GeoVision's devices, including a backdoor password with admin privileges, the reuse of cryptographic keys, and the disclosure of private keys to everyone. All of these vulnerabilities could allow state-sponsored attackers to intercept potential traffic.

Same background. I don’t have experience with Geovision, but Axis is rock solid with a great API. (Axis also led the ONVIF standard, but it’s no where near as nice as their own API which makes sense. Cisco’s dead standard was much better but DOA due to mismanagement)

I think they’re still the industry leader too. The catch is that they are expensive and they’re mainly enterprise solutions

RTSP streams never work, they always have several seconds of latency, and web browsers don't support them well if at all. Someone should invent a webcam that directly speaks WebRTC. Open a HTTPS connection and POST a SDP to get it started.

What? ONVIF is RTSP under the hood. Literally the entire professional surveillance industry is based on RTSP.

Yeah it all sucks. I've tried just about everything. Massive latency. Enough for a bad guy to get away in many cases. I've seen even upwards of 30 seconds. We really need WebRTC. Badly.

Christ on a cracker, Axis' website is horrible! I saw one model that looked interesting, but can't find a price. You have to click on "How to Buy" to get redirected to another page where you then have to click on "Find a Reseller Near Me" which takes you to a form you have to fill out with a bunch of personal information and then send to them, and maybe someone will get back to you. How do these companies stay in business?

You aren't their target customer. Installers and resellers already know them or have a lower friction way to buy. They want you to work through resellers and not have to bother with supporting you directly.

By selling mostly to business clients, where that sort of nonsense (no prices up front, contact for a quote) is more of a norm. Entities that are buying a dozen or dozens of cameras and other items to outfit a building, and plan on negotiating on volume.

The price isn't listed because it depends on bulk, anticipated support and support contracts (ongoing revenue), anticipated future sales etc.

If an independent shop wants 2 cameras you charge them enough to make a profit on the overhead of dealing with them (or point them to a retailer if they want less than a pallet).

If Walmart want 2 cameras to try out you give them (or loan them) to them for free knowing if they like them you'll be shipping them by the pallet for years.

Axis doesn't sell to customers directly (not even to businesses), they sell exclusively to distributors that in turn sell to well-stocked online computer stores from where you can buy them like any other tech product

The security camera industry works through a network of integrators that install the cameras for end customers. These companies are primarily B2B, they don't have any interest in B2C sales of just a couple cameras.

Geovision has had a ton of security incidents. Perhaps they're easy to set up, but they definitely aren't secure.

You shouldn't expose any of these cameras, high end or low end, to the internet. You shouldn't even trust them on the same VLAN as the rest of you computers or phones. That mitigates security issues.

To echo: In small installs I don’t give the cameras a default gateway and put a NIC (physical or virtual) in-subnet with the cameras. Nothing else goes in the subnet.

In larger installs it’s a VRF dedicated to the camera subnets and a similar dedicated NIC arrangement on the server.

Nothing should talk to the cameras except the recording server they’re streaming to.

And you should consider that the ethernet endpoint of each camera may be accessible, perhaps with only limited physical breakage, and provide an entry point onto the network. Having each device on its own /30 is one way to do that, with routing restricted to talking to the server, or you might have a private VLAN feature on your switch. You can have multicast from the cameras go to other devices though.

Annoyingly, few TVs have multicast receivers, it's all Chromecast etc, so you need your own computers to decode and display.

I second the recommendation for Axis cameras. They have LAN only streaming options built in.

You can find older used HD resolution Axis cams fairly inexpensively on eBay. They have a lot of different chassis/lens configurations and a lot model numbers so some research might be required to find the right camera configuration for your desired use case, especially if searching through the used market for models that have been discontinued by Axis.

I want to add a term that I haven't seen in this discussion so far. IP cameras can interoperate with Open Standard NVR systems using ONVIF. [0]

ONVIF cameras, or cameras that support ONVIF are capable of communicating settings and streaming video to recording servers without intermediaries. RTSP or MJPEG are available as media layers ( not the only ones, but ones called out so far in the conversation as desirable for viewing and recording), but the ONVIF configuration makes this easier.

Looking for ONVIF cameras will help you find cameras that might not NEED the app for full functionality use even though, like Reolink, they may offer one. The NVR is the appropriate "glue" for those app functions.

Examples of ONVIF NVRs are not rare, but self-hostable, and free to try or use at some scale are hard to find. These are often the Big Boys. Milestone XProtect, Senstar [ Aimetis] Symphony, but also more DIY options like iSpy, Blueiris, and things in the middle, like Orchid from IPConfigure [1] that you can run on a Raspberry Pi at a small scale, or a Hybrid Cloud setup for enterprise use.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ONVIF [1] - https://www.ipconfigure.com/

I've done this a lot, it has worked with every ONVIF capable camera I have tried. It is sometimes a real nightmare to figure out the stream location and video settings though.

Additionally, Amcrest sells ONVIF compatible cameras that do have a web UI and can connect to any of those NVRs, or a wide number of ONVIF viewer apps on any device you want. They're a bit more expensive, but still dirt cheap compared to more reputable brands mentioned in this thread.

For my apartment, I run rtsp-simple-server[1] on my home server and use Raspberry Pis with generic USB webcams running ffmpeg to stream the audio/video to the RTSP server. Then I run camera.ui[2] separately for a nicer interface on top of all the cameras, HomeKit integration, etc.

The only downside hardware-wise is I don't get any indoor IR night vision with these, which some of the nicer "smart home" account-locked ones do.

It's honestly not too bad to set up if you run [1] and [2] in Docker. I've done disaster recovery scenarios of my home infra where I straight up disconnect the modem's uplink and everything works without any issues.

[1] - https://github.com/bluenviron/mediamtx

[2] - https://github.com/seydx/camera.ui

> I've done disaster recovery scenarios of my home infra where I straight up disconnect the modem's uplink and everything works without any issues.

As a Comcast customer in a region with no competing provider, I really respect and appreciate their proactive stance toward ensuring all their customers frequently have the opportunity to reaffirm this level of confidence in our local networking infrastructures.

Ditto on the Pis. I use zoneminder, but whatever works, works.

I also have a few IR cameras that work ok. The biggest issue is finding decent ir LEDs.

The ones that come with the IR cameras aren't great. I purchased standalone IR LEDs, which are better for reliability and ir illumination.

I have my sketchy Chinacams on a "red LAN" that does not have internet access. It only goes to the second ethernet port on the device that does the capture/motion detect; it does not route to the internet or even do DNS resolution.

This was originally done to keep all that traffic off my main LAN, but it has a handy anti-cloud/anti-spyware firewall purpose too. My Chinacams come from an era, though, where all you had to do is uncheck "cloud" in the ridiculous ActiveX required GUI setup, and that was it for them trying to access the internet. Things may have changed; the last of these didn't even let me set a password to get into the GUI before activating through the cloud and that was a few years ago.

Spending extra to get a commercial grade camera is really not that bad if you plan to use the camera for a while.

I'm not going to recommend specific cameras (as I work for a company that sells them), but one tip is to look for industrial cameras with ONVIF certification and them look them up in the conformant cameras database [1]. They have a page for each camera that describes how you can connect to them on the first time.

[1] https://www.onvif.org/conformant-products/

Bosch, Hanwha, Axis, Ubiquiti/UniFi.

I personally prefer Bosch and Hanwha cameras. Great optics, low light performance and solid firmware. Axis tends to be expensive and low light performance is not as good, for the price. UniFi Protect cameras are decent, but the standalone firmware is rather limited.

I connect these cameras to Frigate[1] locally.

Some example model numbers: Bosch Flexidome IP Starlight 6000 Dome Security Camera - NIN63023A3; Hanwha Techwin XNO-8080R WiseNet X Series Network Bullet Camera 5MP 3.7-9.4mm; AXIS P1468-LE Bullet Camera

I usually find these on eBay.

[1] https://github.com/blakeblackshear/frigate

+1 for Ubiquiti/UniFi Protect. Their cameras are pretty decent are PoE and can be managed by a local (or remote via VPN) NVR but can also operate standalone RSTP (and web app) if you don't want to run them with an NVR. You can access the NVR via an app on your phone if you want to "cloud enable it" (but it's just a relay of some sort at no additional/recurring cost I might add).

I know UBNT have had a few missteps recently, but in general I like their kit and am pretty happy with it.

Thanks, the HomeAssistant integration of frigate.video looks nice!

Do you happen to know a way to use the audio-backchannels of the to broadcast audio out of the cameras? And/or use them as "speakerphone" with SIP/xy? Somehow integrate them with pipewire?

This is a very disturbing trend for sure. Given that these new cameras that need accounts sure aren’t showing ads on the feeds either, meanwhile an account being required must be important to the manufacturers in some way.

I can only conclude that they must be selling access to feeds, because even the most incompetent agile product delivery manager type person isn’t going to simply suggest every camera needs an account along with all the extra engineering requirements involved for that for simply no reason - there surely must be a financial motive.

Furthermore what good is the feed if they can’t also sell the associated metadata, such as the account holders details, nearby WiFi access points, the list of devices on the network.

This is yet another angle they can use to try track every aspect of a home including the infamous example of Samsung “analysing” what type of content you’re watching and selling that to ad companies.

OP is probably better off looking at enterprise/industrial manufacturers.

I agree that they are very likely selling all this data, but let's not underestimate the incompetence of product people.

This is happening with routers, too. Just recently had someone give me a new Netgear Nighthawk for free, and I was stoked until it wanted me to download an app and create an account to manage my network. Straight to the garbage.

Decent consumer hardware, in the future I'd suggest trying out something like OpenWRT rather than binning it.

https://openwrt.org/toh/netgear/r7000

Yeah I didn't realize they could be flashed with OpenWRT. Might give that shot.

Effing Xfinity cable modem wants an app for a couple of things including service activation and such, via bluetooth access. I don't think there's a way around that.

Once that is done you can use the browser for a few things, but for WiFi password and all I think app is still needed. Couldn't find a way to do it other way.

Worst thing is that this stupid Xfinity app eats phone battery like crazy. So I had to disable background activity and bluetooth permissions once I was done with the activation and initial setup.

The way around that is to use your own cable modem. It's also way cheaper to buy than pay the monthly rental fee.

"Oh, you want fixed IP #'s? Sorry, we only support that via our $240-per-year-forever rented cablemodems."

- my most recent Comcast/Xfinity experience

Plus you don't have bandwidth lost to the Xfinity wifi.

Were you using the phone app-based installation, or visiting the local network address from a desktop computer?

Most products like this have some kind of "harder way" to set up without an account, while the smartphone way uses an account. For a router usually means that if you want the old-fashioned manual way you need to visit the router's gateway IP and set it up from there.

Sometimes "the smartphone way" even has a way around having to make an account, it's just that it's hard to find or discouraged. E.g., I set up my HP printer without an account or any ink subscriptions (and I even think it's a great printer, shocking, I know).

(I had a Nighthawk device relatively recently and it had no need for an account, but I don't actually know if this has changed recently)

Well that was a dumb thing to do! You could of flashed it with OpenWrt and had a dam good router.

> I can only conclude that they must be selling access to feeds, because even the most incompetent agile product delivery manager type person isn’t going to simply suggest every camera needs an account along with all the extra engineering requirements involved for that for simply no reason - there surely must be a financial motive.

Eh, probably they're just targeting users who want to view their CCTV on their phone when away from home, without their camera ending up visible to the whole world.

I mean, if you're selling a retail product to consumers, very few of them know WTF things like ONVIF are.

> Given that these new cameras that need accounts sure aren’t showing ads on the feeds either

You haven't noticed many of the companion apps for IoT(of Shit) have those "store"/"discover'/"savvy user center" sections where they try their best to get you to buy more of their devices? Plus a barrage of notifications, in-app banners or emails how you're eligible for a "discount" or "promo"?

This - plus online services (re-broadcasting outside of home network, recording storage, face/object/sound recognition and notifications, etc - any software features that can be pay-gated, especially those that can't be done on-device because the device is ultra-cheap) is how they make money.

> I can only conclude that they must be selling access to feeds

I'm skeptical. Who's the buyer and what are they going to do with those feeds to make them useful? And if it's for something remotely legal - how they're going to untaint this data?

This works in cyberpunk novels - cameras sweeping data, AIs detecting that a neighborhood is $brand turf, classifying all the individuals, ..., massive profit! But reality is messier and way less logical than any fiction (and we don't have any AIs yet, while fiction has them abundant and dirt-cheap). Out of curiosity, I've just had a long session with GPT-4 (which is a really uneconomical way to do advertising, but maybe in 5-10 years?), telling it all I see in my room in extreme detail, down to all the scuff marks and pet hairs. It wasn't exactly bad - it managed to realize the obvious (which is much cheaper to deduce from my search and purchase history, huh), but let's say I haven't made any new records on my purchase list.

> You haven't noticed many of the companion apps for IoT(of Shit)

coulda just gone with Internet of Turds (IoT)

Axis cameras is a strong recommendation from me. They make a huge range from tiny "server room" cameras through to spy-agency grade dome-CCTV cameras, industrial, weather proof etc etc.

Their basic range all have a web GUI, RTSP and ethernet/wifi. Have a look at the M11 range, or the M30 for a cheap dome camera.

+1 for Axis.

I heard they are the go to brand for any goverment organisation that cares about security and privacy.

UniFi Protect cameras can all be set up in standalone mode by visiting the camera's IP address in a web browser — they will obtain an address from DHCP by default. From there you can set up the RTSP streams which become accessible from the camera IP directly. You do not need to use a UniFi Protect app or console in this configuration.

You can also get a console and not connect it to the internet for central management.

Not anymore with their latest models. You are required to have a Protect NVR and account before they’ll let you use standalone mode, and, apparently some new models disable it entirely.

Check out the UniFi subreddit for details.

Very disappointed, as that was my go to brand for standalone IP cameras.

I knew they stopped distributing the video server software (forcing a hardware purchase) but I didn't know they required an account now.

It's just impossible for a business not to screw customers, isn't it?

Sadly ubiquiti seems to be going downhill on multiple fronts.

So disappointing. I can finally afford to buy all the Ubiquiti equipment I wanted in the past but no longer want to buy it. I went TP-Link Omada for my APs and have been satisfied.

I also just set up an Omada system (8 switches, 20 APs) for a friend for the first time after recommending UniFi for years. Very happy with it so far.

I bought a TP-Link Kasa smart outlet to power cycle my modem in the basement. I couldn't get the open source Python utility to activate it so I relented and set it up via the official app. The account creation explicitly has a marketing opt-out that they promptly ignored. They have also ignored all my unsubscribe attempts from their spam. I'd recommend avoiding them.

Omada is their SMB line so they act a bit differently. You can freely use the hardware without any registration or restriction.

been like that for a while now

You don't mention your use case but the ESP32-CAM gets you an ESP32-based wifi streaming camera for about $10 USD. No app. No account. Surprisingly powerful.

https://randomnerdtutorials.com/esp32-cam-video-streaming-fa...

This is cool, and I have one of these! It's performance can be surprising both ways: somehow I am both underwhelmed and impressed at the same time.

I'm for sure looking for an alternative though.

Have they fixed the stability issues yet? When I last looked at ESP32-CAM a couple of years ago, it was so unstable as to be unusable. Have newer versions of software and/or hardware made an improvement?

I don't know. Got one myself a short while ago but have not gotten to trying it out yet. I'd be quite surprised if it hasn't improved over that time though.

esp32-cam is just ok. the quality of the camera is generally very very low. it also can't do h264 meaning that certain integrations like streaming/recording/detecting motion in apple home will require you to do transcodes on some other hardware (which can get expensive).

I'm assuming, given where you're asking, that it would be fine to suggest a DIY option?

If so: on my desk right now is a Raspberry Pi Zero with a NoIR camera, configured so that when it gets power a small Python script starts up as a web server and begins hosting the camera output.

Here's the code for both the server and a webpage to auto-refresh the camera view. MIT license, so have fun:

https://github.com/BenWheatley/PiWebcam

A little off topic, i don´t know your use case, but you can use an old phone as webcam, they will be better in quality than any IP camera.

A little example using my old galaxy s11. ( its connected to a pc using usb, airplane mode, no internet )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CDE7PsLwzk

Be careful when doing this. If left unchecked this could very easily start a fire. I did this with an old Nexus 5 and it only took a couple of days before I had a spicy pillow.

Although, this probably works well for a device with a removable battery and that can be powered by USB alone.

Yes, this is solid advice. If you are going to leave it plugged in all the time, check on the battery regularly to make sure it isn't swelling.

Would it be possible to use the phone without a battery?

There are a good number of androids that can run without a battery as long as they are plugged in, though that varies by model and manufacturer.

If the hardware and software are designed and tested for it, then yes.

Otherwise you may run into various issues caused by phone self-limiting power it takes from USB port. Some kind of negotiation needs to happen before the phone can safely raise the input power limits. If it needs more than currently allowed, it will just poweroff immediately, instead of satisfying the excess need from the battery.

Or a timer switch. Christmas lights 6 hours on 18 off power timer switch. Or a smart switch. Also make sure there is no cushy things like pillow or clothes or stuff around phone.

How does this comment come up whenever IP cameras or dash cams are mentioned? You certainly "can use a old phone as a webcam" and it will be "better quality". That's because it's a device designed to view commercial media, text, etc from your hand while mobile, connected to a network 24/7.

As an analogy, you have a 40 year old Ferrari in pristine condition that really doesn't have much work value, but still a fast classic car. also you daily drive a 5 year old cheap truck. if your daily breaks down, would you replace it with your Ferrari which is certainly "faster" and better quality?

For this scenario I'd like to buy a device powered by POE, with USB-Eth, some free USB-Ports with PPPC, and some contraption, that goes through a hole in the back of the phone to the battery connector inside.

I had assembled something like that for my old SGS2 alarm clock out of a POE-5V splitter, an USB otg adapter, an Uhubctl-compatible USB-HUB powered by the POE-Splitter, and assorted cabling including a lead to the internal battery terminal with the top bar of an old battery (It contains some electronics). UGLY. Does anybody know a pre-made device like that?

You didn't ask for this, but I have been using Camect as the "camera hub" for my home, and i love it. I wanted something i can mix-match different cameras, and could essentially use an IP camera on an internal network, but still have "AI" capabilities.

Give it a look in case it's something you'd need.

As for Wyze, WYZE has "dafang hacks" and also "official firmware" that converts the camera to an RTSP.

Reolink!

They perform quite well even in direct sunlight(47C temperature) and rain. Low light performance is not super great but I can't blame the camera for that.

The only thing missing is the lack of IPv6. I like everything else about it. I have the 510A, 810A and duo 2 poe

I've had mixed luck with Reolink cameras. The RTSP streams have always been really unreliable for me, although the HTTP streams are pretty good. They also do the classic hardware-manufacturer thing where they send random beta firmwares to people on forums on Google Drive that add massive swaths of features (ONVIF support, even), but then they get lost before they make it to release.

It wildly depends on the model of camera. Never had an issue with my RLC-823A cameras. I've heard many horror stories about their earlier models.

Take a look at https://openipc.org/ and choose a camera from their supported list.

I’m in a similar situation to OP and recently came across this project. Their supported hardware lists compatible SoCs, not actual make/models of cameras. I’ve found it fairly hard to map an SoC to a camera. Anyone have any suggestions?

Right, I should have said SoC and not camera in my original post. To install these you will generally need to physically open the camera and attach a serial adapter to issue the commands, so it's probably not for everyone.

I'm also curious if anyone has found cameras available through Amazon or Ali which guarantee support.

edit: I found this -- https://github.com/OpenIPC/wiki/blob/master/en/guide-support...

The project is so excellent, so impressive. And needing to open the case & attach a serial connection is not for the faint of heart (but so fun).

But above all, it's exactly this that's the biggest problem. I'd wager like 75% of devices have an OpenIPC capable chipset. But there's only rudimentary tracking of what devices have what chipsets.

And it's unknown what other wrinkles folks might run into if they do get a device with a valid chipset. Most should just work, but a number will also require more embedded hacking.

Such an amazing project though. Stunningly wide support for a huge array of chipsets.

Not exactly the ask, but a user friendly alternative is HomeKit cameras with a HomePod mini as a hub for local processing. Some can be paired without any app, and once paired you can block internet access at the router level. You can access them through the local network. If you trust apples e2e encryption you can access remotely through the homepod.

I was going to say the same. My Logitech Circle has no app, even if I wanted one. All setup is in the Home app and it works even if my home WiFi is not connected to the wider internet.

I recently bought two Amcrest cameras (4k[1] and 1080p[2]) and did not need to download an app or make an account to set them up. Both just plugged in to a PoE cable and I was able to access them individually on my WAN by typing in their IPs as well as use them on NVR software.

1: https://a.co/d/8k1BWBY 2: https://a.co/d/4a0xnPP

I use Amcrest cameras with external routing blocked. Integrate nicely over RTSP with my favorite apps and Home Assistant.

For Wifi ones, like my doorbell camera, I had to use their app to connect them to Wifi but subsequently block their internet access with no issues. I can still react to events and control settings using Home Assistant and the Dahua HACS plugin.

I don't know if it's supported anymore but some Wyze cameras have an official but unsupported alternative firmware you can flash that exposes them as a local network video stream. They work great and anything on your network can ingest the video. I don't think they made this firmware for their fancier cameras that have motorized pan/tilt etc though.

The firmware exists for the Cam v2, Cam v3, and Cam Pan v1

Cam v2 - https://download.wyzecam.com/firmware/rtsp/demo_4.28.4.51.bi...

Cam v3 - https://download.wyzecam.com/firmware/rtsp/demo_v3_RTSP_4.61...

Cam Pan v1 - https://download.wyzecam.com/firmware/rtsp/demo_4.29.4.51.bi...

How do we trust the firmware from a company that had backdoors in their product open to the world? The first time there was a lot of 'well any multi-team product devs could screw up..'

but the second time it was exposed they knew of the open exploit for quite some time and chose not to patch it right?

I bought a couple Amcrests just a week ago, and they still operate identically to ones I purchased back in 2017. They have apparently been re-branding Dahua's software, since the HTTP APIs are identical, and there are still lots of "Dauha" strings in the configs[0].

I think a lot of the problems with IP cams aren't with the cameras themselves, but the poor state of open-source media players. Getting mplayer, ffplay, or vlc to play nicely with any ipcam has been a Labor of Hercules. If you're using the versions in repos--which are usually quite stale--all bets are off. I've had much better luck using the latest installers, direct from the project websites. So far, VLC seems to work best for me[1].

[0] https://github.com/BourgeoisBear/amdacli

[1] https://www.videolan.org/vlc/

I recommend explicitly blocking internet access for Amcrest devices. I configured my camera with a static IP and blocked it in my PF rules with logging, and my camera model was making 1000s (16k in 24 hours) of DNS requests for config.amcrestcloud.com. I don't use any of their cloud services.

Rather than play whack-a-mole with filters, it's simpler to put mystery-meat devices on a separate VLAN+subnet that doesn't route. Firewall will keep the camera from accessing the internet, but does nothing to protect other hosts on the LAN.

The cloud thing can be disabled from their web UI or the HTTP API, but between all of the knock-offs out there (of any brand), and the eventual end of firmware updates, it's best not to trust any of this stuff.

This is doubly important now that devices are starting to use DNS over HTTPs

At the rate things are going, the only legal port on the internet is going to be 443/tcp. Use a different TCP port, get a visit from the cops. Send a UDP packet, black helicopters and unmarked vans are on their way.

Absolutely agree a VLAN is the better solution to block an entire network, and I do use one in my case (protecting my other VLANs). But I still need to explicitly block Amcrest cam because I also have an RPI on that VLAN doing image processing, which uploads to an external site; hence I can't block the entire VLAN.

A stateful firewall would allow your RPI to access the camera vlan/subnet while still blocking any outgoing connections from the cameras.

I use a Debian Linux router with nftables to achieve this in my homelab.

I'm not sure if this is specifically what you're looking for, but some folks have developed software for the budget "Yi" cameras. It complements (doesn't replace) existing firmware, but you can bypass account creation and disable the manufacturer's cloud. I use mine only occasionally so I don't know how it stands up to frequent use.

There are different maintainers for different models, but as far as I can tell they're all pretty similar: https://github.com/search?q=yi%20hack&type=repositories

Edit to add they work pretty well with Home Assistant with this HACS integration: https://github.com/roleoroleo/yi-hack_ha_integration

Had great experience with Mobotix cameras in internal non-internet-connected networks. There are also models that can write on SD-Cards and such. But I didn't really shop around and compare, don't know how that supplier was picked.

At our business, we have four Mobotix M16 dual sensor (day/night) cameras, and all here who deal with them rave about them.

Nice to see this because I was mulling posting basically the same question. My quest is to find cameras that don't depend on a cloud service, because in my experience such services are always flaky and end up being EoL'ed.

My current setup is Samsung cameras (bought at Costco years ago) which are now suffering from the aforementioned problem. Before that I used RPi with OTS USB cameras and OSS webcam s/w. The RPi burned through their memory cards in short order however. It does appear from the posts here that Axis has the market still.

Reolink NVR kits do not require apps, and you can configure them on no-internet vlans as well.

There is a max number of cameras though.

You could spin up your own ShinobiCCTV if NVRs are your problem.

I have similar needs, but aldo need them to be outdoor/waterproof and PoE capable.

I looked at DIY with Raspberry Pi high quality cameras, but the outdoor requirements mean I really need a manufactured housing. (Camera will be in an area very hard to reach for servicing.)

I wonder if there is any project to hack the generic chinese camera makes and install custom firmware?

I use a Raspberry Pi with PoE+ hat which I've just placed in a waterproof CCTV enclosure. I used a waterproof ethernet cable gland.

Dahua and Hikvision are the largest manufactures, with most companies rebranding them.

Even if you don't use Synology, this is a handy list. https://www.synology.com/en-us/compatibility/camera

Pretty sure hikvision is suspected to have spyware in it. UK has banned it from government sites afaik. China of course denies. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-65307503

It is known to have major vulnerabilities https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/over-80-000-e...

IP cameras in general are little, proprietary computers that you shouldn't trust with internet access. Put them on an isolated network and access them through a more trusted(FOSS) NVR.

Yeah, I was going to suggest Hikvision as being a possible/standard good fit for the OP's inquiry (cameras specifically for LAN use "offline" (not connected to public internet). Straight-up Hikvision would be lower cost than US-based rebranders. However, I checked Wikipedia first and saw "In November 2022, the FCC banned sales or import of equipment made by Hikvision".

So, Hikvision seems to not be a great answer in 2023 after all (an apparent 100% shift from just several years ago). I wonder about the current status of the ban, and what the rebranders and their distributors are doing; a cursory look at web material still shows Hikvision-derived products AFAICT (though I haven't checked in much depth).

As for management software; a dedicated NVR appliance is most convenient IMO in terms of hands-off just-works, but if one wanted to put more time and resources into it, Blue Iris looked interesting the last time I looked several years ago; again, I wonder how that landscape may have updated since then.

Not sure this is actually impacting anything here... I've purchased more hikvision cameras and nvrs this year with no apparent issue. They sure seem to be available at usual pricing.

As long as you take a pretty hard stance to wall off the Hikvision stuff from the outside internet, it seems fairly harmless. Obviously this requires setting up your internet to manage that, but that's not impossible.

Affected Hikvision cameras and firmware versions are listed here:

https://www.hikvision.com/en/support/cybersecurity/security-...

Precondition:

The attacker has access to the device network or the device has direct interface with the internet

One trick is to look at whatever camera FRC (high school robotics competition) is using in their kits, since those are requirements for putting the camera on a robot, and they've got to put out a new kit each year, so there will always be a current model.

Last I knew, they were using Axis cameras, but that was a few years ago.

Past what's being offered here, IP Cam Talk forum is a great resource. Whatever I've asked, they've got an answer. https://ipcamtalk.com/forums/

Just because there's an app available doesn't necessarily mean it's required. It might be that other solutions just haven't been typed out in their docs.

I've recently worked with some of D-Links consumer IP cameras, DCS-8302LH and DCS-8000LHV2. They offer an app and optionally cloud storage but they ship with ONVIF support. No web interface afaik, but what I found was that I just needed to start interacting through ONVIF to get going with a local-only setup (this would automatically disconnect the camera from the app as well).

These cameras are some of the cheapest available, but they have been solid.

After managing ZoneMinder for years I finally went with Reolink and I've been very happy with their cameras and NVR. Now it "just works" and I never think about it. I use their app sometimes to view the streams but via holes I punched in my network (you could also VPN) and I don't use any of their "cloud" features. If you wanted you could hook up your own client to the streams off the NVR, I have HomeAssistant grabbing those feeds and that's how I view my cameras 90% of the time.

I use Reolink as well, they work reasonably well, inexpensive, PoE, and speak ONVIF.

Reolink are the perfect price/performance for home use, in my book. Are they perfect? No. The focus drifts on some models after time (they'll fix it on their own, just not perfectly crisp all the time). The quality of video is "ok". Etc.

I'd love to go Axis, those are AMAZING. But an Axis dome camera is about $600 and Reolink is $90. If you're a business, Axis is the way to go. For home? Reolink.

All the individual cameras in my house are on their own LAN simply because they are plugged directly into the Reolink NVR. I can block the NVR from internet access if I choose. Doesn't seem to need it, other than for remote camera viewing. Which I can do via tailscale.

+1 for reolink - I have four of them, running with both network and power over ethernet, each initially configured via their individual built-in web server, and now all hooked up seamlessly with home assistant. My only complaint is that the model I bought 4 of has been deprecated, and the closest equivalent is more featureful but more expensive :(

Currently using some canon cr-c300s for remote production from a music festival this weekend. They seem to do the job, depends whether you're happy with ndi-hx or not (we're actually taking the SDI out and putting them into Magewells with speedhq)

Probably not the price range you're thinking of. PTZ control and preview is via a normal webpage.

https://www.canon.co.uk/ptz-cameras/cr-x300/

Which Amcrest cameras did you buy?

I noticed the "consumer" ones that are targeted at the non-techy have that issue.

But last I saw the 60$ PTZ model didn't require an app at all (admittedly a little bit ago)?

Just an FYI it might not need an app but the Amcrest cameras I have do phone home pretty aggressively. I black-holed them on my network, but no idea what kind of data it might be sending back.

Axis supports ONVIF as do HikVision and Dahua (if you are OK with Chinese brands). I've yet to find an ONVIF compatible camera with reasonable quality that didn't cost $$$.

What a really want is a IP camera with open source firmware. It's odd that no one is offering that, think of the money you'd save not writing software

I buy very cheap PoE cameras that are direct from China, and block the living daylights out of them at the firewalls so they can't leak to the internet.

Avoid Amazon Blink stuff if you do this. I set some up for someone and they're a total scam. They advertise a local only mode that doesn't require a subscription, but it's crippled and makes the cameras nearly unusable. They disable thumbnails and bulk deletion of video.

Worst of all, they'll stealthily enable a "trial" subscription for 3 months when you set them up in local mode, so they seem ok until they get crippled with demands for a subscription fee.

Oh, certainly. If the "user manual" has anything but Chinese characters and absolutely broken Engrish, run screaming.

You want something yumcha like https://www.alptopsecurity.com/20.html

I have 4x of these and they work great. They meet all your requirements. They have their own web server on each of them for managing their connections, although I have them all streaming via RTSP into Frigate to do computer vision detection on them.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07S47VXGY

I own two Reolink cameras. These are very cheap, like 50 EUR or so, and come with wireless and ethernet connectivity. They speak RTSP and have a web UI. You can set them up entirely locally through that web UI.

I cannot attest whether they phone home or not as I run them on an isolated network, but they work fairly well and the web UI exposes all the features the camera has.

i use yi home camera (4 pack on amazon for $72 currently) which runs over wifi and firmware via https://github.com/roleoroleo/yi-hack-Allwinner-v2. this bypasses the app and internet connection entirely. you will need some microSD cards to flash and run the cameras.

this exposes RTSP/ONVIF and also allows for local motion detection and recording capabilities.

i also use https://www.scrypted.app/ to handle MQTT for motion detection events from the camera and restream to apple home to take advantage of notifications on my phone, remote streaming, etc.

this works fairly well, the downsides are that the install process is probably more involved than it should be, and the stand it comes with is just /ok/ but the mounting bracket is such that you can 3d print your own fairly easily. 1080 stream quality is good enough tho i'm sure there are better quality cameras on the market.

I’ve used Dericam.

TS Mpeg stream to a home NAS

I had to wrap the microphone cable in aluminium foil and expand the plastic microphone hole to get decent sound capture. But they’re cost effective and stay in the LAN

http://www.dericam.com/index.php?s=/List/index/cid/9.html

I just purchased an Amcrest IP4M-1041B and IP4M-1041W (Different colors of the same model) and they have a functional web interface.

They are available on Amazon.

One helpful tip to avoid most of the sketchy cheap cameras that try to send your data to China: Look for "NDAA compliant" cameras that are approved for use by the US government.

There's a Taiwanese brand Vivotek that makes some relatively affordable NDAA cameras. I'm hoping to try them out myself, but unfortunately haven't had time yet.

I have an Axis cam that I purchased used, quite cheap. It basically runs Linux, a web server, something that serves RTSP, and maybe other things too. It has a neat web UI for administration, online manuals, and easy endpoints where you can get camera output and metadata easily. I can highly recommend.

OP didn't mention, but is this purchase for personal or resale/client purposes? I ask because there are NDAA/FAR purchasing requirements that the client may be under. Axis and Geovision both have NDAA compliant equipment.

Dahua and Hikvision are cheap but they're like E.T. - they phone "home".

You can build out a UniFi system without giving them any information. The entire system can be run local-only.

I was looking at buying a new camera from them to use in standalone mode. AIUI, you are required to have a Protect account to activate newer model cameras. It appears as though they’ve done away with standalone RTSP streams. This is a new change on their newest models.

I really like my "IN-9008 Full HD" from https://www.instar.com - I think it matches all the requirements. (They ship to the US an all cloud services they offer are optional)

as long as we are talking about security cameras, i have a related question.

i have a bunch of power-over-ethernet cameras installed in my home. all the ethernet cables route back to a server box, which has a hard drive for saving the video for about a week. it also has a mobile app that lets me view the feeds in realtime. so far, so good.

now, what can i do to also route the video footage to, say, AWS or some other cloud storage option, and have it deleted after a week or so, the same as my camera hub server currently does?

i figure this will require me to buy a new server hub box, and that is fine with me. the one i have now is adequate, at best. i'd rather have a better one.

The gear from SCW can be used without any internet connection at all. https://getscw.com

I am not affiliated with them, other than that I've bought equipment from them in the past.

As far as I know, you can also add Hikvision cameras to the list of LAN-only, no-app devices.

In general, you probably want to look more towards the commercial CCTV market, even at the cheap end, rather than at any cameras aimed directly at home consumers.

Disappointing to hear about Amcrest. I was hoping to go that route as my single IP8M-T2669EW-AI has worked so well for me. I guess this means it's going with Axis which is only disappointing from a cost perspective.

Reolink cameras are the go-to on many home improvement YouTube channels that I watch - they support ONVIF and RTSP. Unifi is mentioned by other comments: I use it and it does require an app to set up.

Xiaomi yi with replacement firmware https://github.com/alienatedsec/yi-hack-v5

Are you sure you are not stuck at their "easy setup wizards"? To me it seems unlikely that there won't be a webUI access. Which models specifically are you using?

IP cams are an interesting animal. On one side, very versatile but on the other side a huge waist:

Most IP cameras use 3W just creating a RTSP stream. add another 5W for IR LEDs that come on in the evening.

If i was shopping, i'd look for sensors with very high sensitivity that don't need 5W of IR to get good night images.

I have a few where i've physically disconnected the IR array and the shutter will adapt and still get very good static images and a little bit of smearing when something moves. It all depends of your use case though.

High sensitivity isn't a solution. It's a basic signal-to-noise issue. If you have a large area and want a crisp image, the light is essential.

Broadly, cameras designed to be used with IR are going to look like trash if you can adjust the shutter to work in dark conditions.

Smearing is bad. If you want to identify anything, it's worthless. If the goal is to just see if anything is there, then almost any camera works... But that's not useful for much.

Hikvision ONVIF cameras are my professional recommendation. They can be had on eBay for about ~$120.

afaik they still call the mothership regularly

We recently setup Ring, but without a subscription they don't save/record anything, and of course are (creepily) cloud dependant.

Is there any similar hardware that (a) Can run local only? (b) Is "non-tech partner-proof"? (ie, looks decent on a house, works reliably, wifi/24vac or PoE)

Are there any self-hosted apps/servers that can replace the Ring software?

For this, I would consider UniFi Protect. Their doorbell cam is nice, their other cameras are nice, their software isn't the worst by a mile.

With some simple detours, you can set up a Protect system -- cameras and "console" (NVR) -- to operate completely independent of the cloud, or altogether isolated if you like. Attractive devices and family-friendly. Homekit compatible via an excellent Homebridge plugin.

Not necessarily the cheapest, but, again, there are no recurring fees, either, as there would be for much equipment of similar quality.

Which Amcrest one did you buy? I recently got their cheaper PoE one and it worked without an app.

Hikvision cameras does not require any app and work without internet and without account

Anyone have experience with Hanwha Techwin? I've been debating between them an Axis.

Loryta 5442. There are whole forums for this topic - check out the ipcamtalk site.

I have some Amcrest IP5M-T1179E that didn’t require any external apps for setup.

TP-Link works with web UI & App. Allows rtsp too.

Search RTSP on shodan and check out the device models.

Axis cameras

i have a camera that requires app, my wifi account , cloud connectivity etc .. possibility is that 1.they may watch us live 2.sell the data to thief , or a hacker would hack it and sell it to thief 3.spam our mails 4.push ads , suuckk our data , may run crypto/ads mining

Ubiquiti.

Maybe just buy a webcam.

reolink

Amcrest

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