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Comment by thesuitonym | Hacker News Reader

I've bounced off of EVE three times now, and I've come to the conclusion that as much as I want to play the game, it's just not fun. Whoa there! Before you reply, remember that fun is relative to each person, what's fun for you is not necessarily fun for me!

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> Whoa there! Before you reply, remember that fun is relative to each person, what's fun for you is not necessarily fun for me!

This whole part could have been replaced by adding "it's just not fun _for me_", and without making it sound like you do think the game is objectively not fun but don't want to defend it.

You need to add "to me" at the end of your sentence here, because you're making it sound like you think their post sounds a certain way objectively, when that's actually subjective and didn't sound that way at all to me.

As a counterpoint, your recommendation could be similarly received as a command because you omitted the qualifiers indicating it was just your opinion.

In my opinion such qualifiers aren't necessary as there's an implicit understanding that others are sharing their opinions, and are generally explicit in the event that they're not.

You are all grounded. Go to your rooms.

You'd think that, but in the past when I say I just don't enjoy it, or it's not fun for me, I get a bunch of replies about why I'm wrong and what I missed out on, and what I should do to make it fun.

Did you try out those suggestions or stand firm that no matter what you refuse to like this game?

The clarification probably wouldn't work in those cases for the same reasons "for me" wasn't enough, but I understand the problem

As I get older and I've played every genre, I think few video games are fun.

Many video games are addicting(stardew valley), many games invoke nostalgia(Nintendo/Zelda), some are slot machines(Diablo 3 and Starcraft Coop), etc...

You wonder how many games are genuinely fun, and how many are marketed well and cause a network effect. Did people really like playing Madden 20xx and Call of Duty X? Or did 1 popular friend get their psychology exploited, and if you wanted to be cool, you'd buy the game to play with them.

>Did people really like playing Madden 20xx and Call of Duty X?

Can't talk about those games but Fortnite is a fine example of insanely popular game yet it's actually really fun too. I was ignoring it for a long time and started playing when the Covid lockdowns started and I was surprised that it's actually a good TPS game + the constant updates what makes it really enjoyable. Live service games live and die by the updates and Epic does the gameplay updates really well: new or unvaulted weapons every 2-3 weeks, new map changes every 3 months etc. So it always feels fresh, just enough change that you don't get bored.

There is also the aspect of instant gratification which makes the genre appealing to a lot and easy to jump in. It doesn't take a lot to understand what's going on and if you fail you just start a new game, akin to rogue/lite/like genre which is coincidentally (or not) became popular since the 2010s too.

Can't speak to all games, but I have found that the Mortal Kombat/Tekken style fighting games really aren't that much fun to me anymore. Smashing buttons is fun for like maybe ten minutes, but it gets boring real quick.

On the other hand Street Fighter VI is the perfect example how to reinvent the genre. The new campaign mode is really good and makes the game 100x better than any other previous title. Honestly japanese studios has an insane year in 2023 (Zelda, RE4 Remake, FFXVI, Armored Core VI, Street Fighter VI etc.)

>Honestly japanese studios has an insane year in 2023 (Zelda

Zelda TotK seems to be pretty disappointing from what I read. After BOTW I finally gave up playing every Zelda game.

Nintendo is the best when it comes to video game marketing, they basically brainwashed us since we were toddlers and they have a tight grip over mainstream reviews.

I don't know if TotK is good, but we won't be getting too much honest feedback until the hype dies down. Remember when people said BOTW was the greatest game of all time? That aged poorly.

Anyway, I am quite skeptical of people who put modern Zelda in their 'great' games list. They havent been a powerhouse since N64.

the competitive fighting genre evolved into fortnite. it will be interesting to see where it goes next.

You wonder how many games are genuinely fun, and how many are marketed well and cause a network effect.

Are you trying to approach entertainment as if there is some objective measure of "fun"?

And how is this issue specific to games? Aren't movies, TV and books all subject to your same concerns?

>And how is this issue specific to games? Aren't movies, TV and books all subject to your same concerns?

Yes

Don't play genres, a genre is inherently about something that sold well enough to spawn lots of clones. Like a lot of software, the need for commercial success compromises many good ideas.

Fun changes with you i guess.

I've been playing videogames since the days of Pong. I've had a pong console, the ZX Spectrum, the Intel 286,386,486,etc, Xbox, PSP. Still have the Xbox 360, Nintendo DS, GameCube, Wii, Switch and nowadays i play most of my games on my "family gaming computer" which is a MSI Trident 3.

Of course life happened and i don't have much game time. And i got older of course. What i do like are the stories in the games. I like rpgs, but hate the fighting and grinding. I like fpses, but hate their mazes/puzzles (except for the Portal games).

The limited time has made me picky on what game i want to play, so there are very few games that i really complete. I want the most of my invested time. The last one i completed was Star Trek Resurgence. Nice story, nice graphics and the qte's made sure the game progresses without needing much time. It was lots of fun.

I'm still trying to complete Yakuza 5. The stories are nice, but it takes lot of grinding.

I've noticed this as I've gotten older, but I think it's me—not the games. I can point to two reasons:

* I have less time or patience to invest in learning the intricacies of complex games that used to be so rewarding. I've been a big fan of Paradox games over the years, but man, the amount of time needed to really appreciate games like Hearts of Iron or Crusader Kings isn't worth it to me anymore.

* I feel less capable of "suspending reality" in RPGs. When I was a kid, I feel like I could get super immersed in things like the Elder Scrolls games—I probably have more hours in Oblivion than any other game to date. But I don't quite get that same feeling anymore. Adulthood, I guess?

Now, I almost exclusively play relaxing games that don't require too much mental overhead (like Diablo). I'll still pick up indie games that get a lot of traction (enjoyed Hades and Disco Elysium), but rarely touch AAA games.

There are a lot of different types of fun. For example, there's a lot of satisfaction in accomplishing something, even if you didn't have "fun" doing it (this is why people like to climb mountains or 100% games). Conversely, if you've had a long day at work, playing a game with easy dopamine hits may be what you need to unwind. Some people just want an excuse to hang out with friends, and a non-intense game can be a good way to do that.

Games ultimately fulfill a lot of different needs for people. Not every game needs to be the most engaging thing ever, in the same way that not every movie needs to be The Godfather. And I think it's important to recognize why people play games without being condescending about it.

I love the idea of EVE Online, but the execution is just...boring.

This 14-year-old video sums it up: https://youtu.be/4c6jafaiPh8?t=66

Personally my fondest memories of EVE (as someone with a 2009 character) are when we managed to get the drop on someone and absolutely ruin their day. Someone flying around with a $300 ship who should not be out there in the depths of space. There’s something deeply satisfying about getting hate mail from someone who says they’re going to find you and kill you because you blew up their internet space ship. Perhaps from a different time on the internet, I’d imagine you’d get in trouble for sending such an EVE mail these days.

But for each moment like that there were countless hours where we were just sitting around being bored doing nothing. Or mindlessly grinding. It was fun because it was subversive and one of the few places where you could actually be aggressive in a way that had consequences. And trust me, I lost a lot too. It felt super bad. But that was what made it fun!

I’ve got a family now and no way I can play EVE anymore. But I’ll remember the crazytown I played in.

The game is much, much different now. If you require matchmaking, its the wrong game.

There is nothing in it that is stopping anybody from choosing the worst and most boring activities, unfortunately.

Congrats! You’re winning at EVE.

Personally I only found EVE Online fun when I was making it not fun for other people. Like the time I made friends with some guys, spent a few months playing with them, then robbed them blind and blew up all their spaceships for the insurance fraud while they were sleeping because I got bored. I got so much hate mail it was glorious.

Then I lost all my ill gotten gains playing space poker. But man it was exhilarating. Just like a true space cowboy. The highs and the lows.

A few months later I tried to make more money using my very expensive carrier ship that was worth a few hundred in real life money, and then that got blown up by some other space pirates. Thus completing the circle of rage. I haven’t played much since.

There’s a joke in the game, you’ll say “whatever happened to Frank?” “Oh, he’s winning at EVE”, meaning he quit. The only way to really win is to not play.

I played it from 2017 to 2019, was part of the TAPI alliance. It was fun doing content roaming around Provi/Catch and fighting Goons, my corp at one point decided we should all move to a wormhole and try to live there. It was very good because it was a break from the routine that we had which we pretty much were "F1 monkeys" (always following the order to shoot specific ships from the fleet commander).

My corp was awesome and after I stopped playing (at the start of World War Bee 2), I saw that some of my corpies stopped as well. I had just skilled my main character to fly a capital ship and I wanted to try ratting (sort-of idle PvE content) with it, but lots of things happened and I kinda didn't have time nor money to spend on the game. I only managed to pay for the subscription with ingame money once. I tried to get into industry as I found it interesting, and wanted to build some tools to help fellow industry mates at the alliance, but never got to build them.

Planetary interaction also looked nice, as you had to plan out a setup and you needed different planets to produce the components that would result in higher profits.

It was fun playing, but now I remember one of the reasons I lost interest in it was that it got bought by Pearl Abyss and suddenly a few months later they announced lootboxes inside the game and kinda made it more P2W than what it already was.

(I'm not saying this applies to you at all, but you made me think of it)

One thing EVE taught me is that some games provide more enjoyment the more you put into it. For me, I had to play 'hardcore' in EVE to really start to have fun - casual just didn't work and was never enjoyable.

At this point in my life I just don't want to invest the time and energy to enjoy EVE. I like hopping into a game and having fun immediately, versus having to work to have fun.

This echos my thoughts precisely. I clocked up a lot of hours 2004 to 2009, and more casual for a couple of years after. I feel you have to really commit to this game to get the real fun out of it. And sadly i don't have entire nights free to dedicate to games any more...so I'm done with it. I still miss it, even now...but i know that ship has sailed.

Actually, the third time I went back to it, I had that same opinion, and you know, I did have some fun with it at first, but I think it was more the novelty of that type of gameplay than that I actually enjoyed doing it. About six months in I realized it was just a second job that I was paying to do, and decided not to play again.

In the end, I realized that my favorite part of EVE was just looking at the ships, but I can do that without playing.

I've had the same experience. Played multiple times, once for almost a year. The only thing that kept me playing that long was the good group of people on voice comms. I quit for the last time when I realized that life is too short to waste on a game I wasn't even enjoying (and that, frankly, stressed me out.)

I played eve for several years. I quit after the introduction of PLEX created developer-endorsed real money transactions. Not only because it was too tempting to simply spend money instead of playing to recoup my losses, not only because it meant rich people had a huge advantage over poor people, but because it made it possible to assign a dollar value to everything I did in the game. It's one thing to grind an RPG three hours so you can get ten thousand gold and buy a bracelet of fire resistance. It's an entirely separate thing to spend three hours doing something tedious and know for a fact your three hours of work was worth two dollars and eighty cents.

To this day I don't know if CCP killing my enjoyment of the game was a good or bad thing.

Remember that fun is relative. I've had great times in EVE. Probably the most impactful video game I've played because of the community and social aspects.

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