Dell launches Ultrabook for $999 | Hacker News Reader

Dell launches Ultrabook for $999

dell.com

42 pointsangel_00775 comments

So I clicked through this article, expecting something that totally misses the point (like their Adamo a few years ago).

It doesn't match my immediate expectations. Which is good! The machine looks solid. I don't know if I like it more than my Air, but it looks promising.

I keep clicking through. In a machine like this, two things really matter: keyboard and display. As allwein says in another comment thread, they don't show the keyboard head-on. Which is concerning, but I can live with a crappy keyboard if the screen is great. So click click click, I keep on looking for display information.

"A tough yet brilliant 13.3" screen in a compact form similar to an 11" laptop." This sounds...well, I'm not sure what they're saying, but it sounds interesting at least! So I go to check out the specs.

No specs, anywhere. After a bit I realize that clicking "Buy XPS 13" takes me to the (god-awful, ugly) Dell page for the product line, where (if I pick "Customize") I can get some specs. The prices get me a bit frowny, but they're not that crazy. So I look at the bottom-line one, which for my use case is more or less equivalent to my 11" Air except in size.

At last, there it is...WTF? "Silver Anodized Aluminum and 13.3" HD (720p) Truelife WLED Display with 1.3MP HD Webcam".

There we go--there's the "attention to detail is for suckers" Dell I've come to know and loathe. Apple puts a 1440x900 display in their 13" Airs. They put a 1366x768 display in the 11" Airs. I mean, that's just sad--Dell is using a worse panel in their 13" 'ultrabook' than Apple does in their 11" Air. Dell has no excuse.

Somehow, the lessons of "don't make people use screens that suck" is lost along the way to the rest of the laptop manufacturers out there. I am (not very) deeply sorry, Dell, but packaging crap in a thinner, lighter box only makes it thinner, lighter crap.

Most manufacturers seem to do that these days, hiding display resolution somewhere obscure, while it represents one of the most important details that I need to know.

Personally, I'd like an Ultrabook with the 13" 1080p screen from the Sony Z series. (But not made by Sony, since I need something with decent quality, a decent warranty, and a decent company.)

hiding display resolution somewhere obscure, while it represents one of the most important details that I need to know.

This isn't a coincidence. Sales can profit from ignorance, whether natural or engineered.

Depends on who you want to sell to. Newegg very effectively demonstrates the value of showing specific technical details and making them easy to filter or compare. Many vendor sites offer similar search mechanisms ("monitors larger than this size and this much resolution, with these inputs").

They want to sell to Dell customers.

Dell has one of the search mechanisms I just mentioned: on their laptop or monitor pages, you can click a few links to filter the set of products based on features you want. For monitors, they include resolution in those features; unfortunately, for laptops they don't.

Good thing we're talking about laptops, then. If we were including their monitor product pages in this critique we'd really look silly.

Or how about the Asus Zenbooks? 13" 1600x900, 11" 1366x768. Played with one briefly in Staples a few weeks ago, but not enough to get a good feel for it.

Holding off till Linux runs better on them and there are some Ivy Bridge models, but they're definitely on my short list.

I want an ultrabook to throw Arch on. I'm real close to buying the Lenovo U300s, but I'm not a hardware geek, does it look reasonable to anyone in the know?

Seems like putting in a crappy display is what allowed them to hit the $999 price point.

Screen aside, it is reasonably close to the MacBook Air (real world keyboard/trackpad usability and battery life notwithstanding) that it could get some people to get one over the MBA, except that Dell completely blows it with their presentation.

The site is completely Flash and tries to do one of those fancy scrolling sites, except the scrolling doesn't feel right and the clicking-and-dragging the scroll bar doesn't work. I ended up hitting "Shop XPS Laptops" which took me to the entire XPS range, where I found the ultrabook, clicked on it and was led back to the same Flash site. I hit "Buy XPS 13" and entered the checkout process by accident before going back, scrolling down, hitting Tech Specs and getting most of the information I want (the actual display resolution; it says it's 720p, but is that 1280x720 or 1200x720?).

720p means 1280x720, 1080p means 1920x1080.

edit: apparently not, see sibling comment

Exactly my point :)

It means 1366x768 like usual "720p" displays.

Dell should have mentioned the resolution specifically, but it's also 1366 x 768, not 1280x720(720p).

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/xpsL321x/en/sp...

"It's not steaming crap. It's cooled!"

I'm not trying to rip on you, but to me that's about all that says. (Yes, it's fairly standard among not-Apple laptops to put a 1366x768 13" panel in a laptop, but that's unacceptably crap given the competition.)

Apologies.

From your comment, "Dell is using a worse panel in their 13" 'ultrabook' than Apple does in their 11" Air", I assumed you interpreted the 720p resolution as strictly 1280x720 instead of being concerned about PPI as both the MBA 11" and the Dell have the same resolution.

No worries. :) I did interpret it as 1280x720, but even 1366x768 in a 13" is really disappointing.

PPI is king as far as I'm concerned - I love the 1680x1050 panels in the 15" MBPs.

+1. Very disappointing. Can't get it without Windows either :-(

Keep an eye on Vizio.

The thin and lights they announced at CES are going to pack 1600x900 screens in the 14" model, and full 1080p screens in the 15.6" model.

Gorgeous industrial design, great screens, they're working with Microsoft to ship Windows 7 bloatware-free, and Vizio has a reputation for being absolutely ruthless in cutting prices while maintaining quality. They're supposed to hit market in June, and I'm holding off on buying a new notebook until then.

The Verge had a great interview with their CTO:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/13/2705064/vizio-cto-matt-mcr...

They seem to get it. If they mean half of what McRae says in that interview, Vizio stands to really turn the commodity PC market on its head. Given that we keep seeing the same mistakes made by the likes of Dell, HP, et al, I think it may just take an outsider like them to shake up the industry.

This is interesting. I hadn't realized they were getting into PCs (my only knowledge of Vizio is "shitty Walmart TVs") and they're at least saying all the right things.

Admittedly, at this point it'll take a lot to get me to come back from Apple, but that is definitely a start.

>(my only knowledge of Vizio is "shitty Walmart TVs")

FWIW, Vizio has developed a reputation for building TVs that match the quality of more expensive sets at lower prices. They're generally far better than the junk budget displays you'll find while considerably cheaper than something from a "name" manufacturer like Samsung or Sony. The hope -- and what Vizio is claiming they intend to do -- is that they bring this to the PC market.

Totally possible! My only knowledge of them is through the fine Walmart electronics department, though, which has no reputation for quality. :)

Sounds promising, but I wouldn't normally consider a 14-15" screen "thin and light", and I don't see any statistics on thickness or weight to indicate otherwise.

And the biggest open issue from my perspective: will they have an incredibly good warranty? Always a major concern with a new company in a field, particularly when you don't know if they'll remain in that field for the lifetime of the product. To calibrate expectations: I currently have a ThinkPad, and on the rare occasion that something goes wrong with it, it gets fixed the next day for free. I wouldn't buy any laptop without at least a three-year no-questions-asked warranty, and the end of that warranty period indicates the time to buy a new laptop.

>Sounds promising, but I wouldn't normally consider a 14-15" screen "thin and light", and I don't see any statistics on thickness or weight to indicate otherwise.

From Gizmodo's hands on with them at CES:

>Like its new tablet, the specs aren't final, so Vizio won't say just how thin, or how light they are. But the 14-inch felt comprable to my Macbook Air, and looked to be similar in terms of thickness. (See comparison shot.) Bottom line, this thing will be a breeze to shove in a bag and tote around all day.

http://gizmodo.com/5874470/putting-my-hands-on-vizios-new-ma...

Just guessing at the photos the prototypes they were showing off looked like they were in the inch-ish thick range. I do know that pretty much every hands-on I read about them said they fit the ultrabook mold even though Vizio is choosing not to use the term to describe them. (And I don't blame them. I always thought ultrabook was a pretty terrible name).

I think we're going to have to wait until a year or two after Apple releases retina display Airs before ultrabooks start having high resolution displays.

Same here. Was amazed by the initial marketing gloss, but let down by the 1366x768 display :(

30 March 2005: X1 announced (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Latitude)

  1280 × 768 at 16.8 million colors
  1.140 kg with 58 Whr Li-Ion 6 cell
  w: 286 mm
  h: 25.0 mm		
  d: 196.8 mm

XPS13 ultrabook

  13.3" High Definition WLED, 300-nit (1366x768) 720p; 
  Weight: Starting at 2.99lbs (1.36kg)6
  47WHr battery; 6-Cell Li-Polymer (built-in)3
  Width: 12.4" (316mm)
  Height: 0.24-0.71" (6-18mm)
  Depth: 8.1" (205mm)

So in 7 years, we've added 86 pixels and gotten bigger and heaver. I'm not sure if the X1 laptop was revolutionary, or laptops just haven't gotten that much better. Certainly the X1 was the best investment I've ever made; with a SSD upgrade it's still going strong!

I'm waiting for the Asus UX31 to drop to about $700. Unless the new Pro/Airs with 2000 by 1500ish rez are closer to $1000 than $2000.

They have a 1600x900 screen resolution. This is the most important spec for me. Everytime I see 1366x768 I cringe to imagine what an Eclipse Debug perspective would look like on that. Hey look "3 lines of code and 2 variables are viewable at the same time!"

Yeah, I was quite interested in them too. However, my worry is that initial Linux support with all the new parts would be a PITA. When I got the X1 7 years ago, I was a student and patching kernels and poking around various wiki-pages to get various things working was fun. Now I'm in the old and boring "just want it to work" camp :)

The telling thing for me is that there is not a single image of the keyboard head-on. The keyboard is a make or break feature on a laptop of this size. I fear that not showing any images of the keyboard is indicative of a sub-par experience.

This problem has been solved many a ttimes before. It's not the first 13" laptop anybody has designed. So thogh I'd love to see a keyboard pic, I'd assume it's going to be inline with what's out there already.

Love these new ultrabooks btw. Apple kickstarted it as always and all the platforms benefit.

apple was a latecomer to the thin and light category. FYI.

It was one of the innovators in _affordable_ thin and light, though. While there were very light and thin laptops prior to the Air, they were usually either netbooks, or terribly expensive. Of course, so was the first-gen Air; the second one was really the interesting one.

nope, there were plenty of options like the Dell X1 (2.5lbs, 2005) and Sony VAIO Z (3.3lbs, 2000). these were mainstream and affordable and functional. the first air came in 2008.

The X1 was light, but it was not thin. Perhaps thinner than other notebooks that Dell was making at the time. But compared to a MacBook Air, any computer that has room to stack two USB ports on top of each other is a friggin' elephant.

What did the Vaio Z cost on release? My impression was that it, and all of Sony's ultra-small laptops, were always terrifyingly expensive. The current Vaio Z, certainly, starts at just under $2000.

1992 was pretty early http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_Duo

i don't think it qualifies, not thin and not even that light.

At the time, that was what the MacBook Air is now. It was amazing and much missed.

For me, there are combinations of the location and size of the "Fn", "Enter", "Backspace", "Backslash" and "Right Shift" buttons that could make a keyboard a deal-breaker. E.g., my 9" eee has the shift right of the "up-arrow", and this is a poor design choice that I would hate if I used it day-in-day-out for real work. (My eee is a consumption device, so that's sort of ok)

Exactly. I overlooked a HUGE PROBLEM when I bought my HP DV6 online. They offset the whole keyboard one column to the right for the stupid function buttons.

http://i.imgur.com/pWcax.jpg (someone tell me what the encircled button does)

I had to disable every single one of those keys. You have no idea how many times I launched the damn calculator.

"This problem has been solved many a ttimes before."

Just because this has been "solved" before doesn't mean Dell solved it correctly here.

I loathe Apple for a few different company policy reasons and haven't bought one of their products since the iPhone 3G, but I still can't help but cringe at the crappy keyboard/display/touchpads non-Apple PC laptop makers continue to churn out, even on higher-end laptops, despite this being a "solved" problem. There are a few exceptions to the rule, but even the PC manufacturers who manage to get things right once or twice tend to just go and screw things up in next year's refresh.

The keyboard is what I look at first as well, as I dislike laptops without a decent arrow key layout.

Engadget ( http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/10/dells-xps-13-ultrabook-an... ) had some pics recently, including some of the keyboard.

A 13" laptop a little bit bigger than the 11" Macbook Air, a little worse screen resolution than the 11" Macbook Air, at about the same price point as the 11" Macbook Air.

And companies wonder why ultrabooks have been a flop...

Why make it out of aluminium? Does it have better heat properties or lighter weight than say some high quality plastics or steel, or any other metal?

Because at first glance it will pass for a macbook air.

I don't say that with any bitterness. I have and love my air, but as I find myself using less and less of OS X, and really just living in iTerm and my browser, the real appeal of the Air to me now is the hardware. If the Ultrabook stands up to the Air in quality, I'm seriously considering the Ultrabook + Ubuntu (double-u?) for my next notebook. Also assuming Ubuntu runs well on it, which my guess is if it doesn't now, it will soon.

Why would you do that instead of just putting Ubuntu on the Air?

In the case that Dell (or someone else) had better hardware at a better price. It doesn't look like that's the case with the Ultrabook just yet.

I'm in the same boat with one crutch: Netflix.

While I enjoy the fantastic gestures of OS X, I could survive without them. Netflix on the other hand, is irreplaceable. If (or hopefully when) Netflix runs on Linux, I'd consider it if the hardware were on par.

Aluminum is easily machinable, lightweight, has great heat transfer, can be annodized so that it has a nice surface finish, and is not that expensive.

Titanium would be a good choice as well, but it is far more expensive.

Steel isn't a good choice for a variety of reasons, but #1 in my mind is surface finish. Typically you have to paint or plate steel.

A high end plastic or composite can be made nice, but people are moving away from it.

So nothing would have stopped them from using a high end plastic or a nice composite? Something that would tell their product apart from a MacBook Air? It is a pity they did not try.

>So nothing would have stopped them from using a high end plastic or a nice composite?

Besides the fact that this would make it not look like a MacBook?

>Something that would tell their product apart from a MacBook Air?

They're not aiming for "not MacBook". They're aiming for "we also have a MacBook!"

From a quick glance it looks ok but there are a few features (missing, I think) which would make me (as a mac book air 11") envious:

- 1080p screen

- 1080p web cam, tilting

- large choice of colors for the anodized aluminum lid (the carbon body is a nice touch, assuming they can't find factory capacities to produce a full aluminum body at the moment ?)

- matte cormin gorilla glass (no idea if that's physically and chemically possible but cool it would be)

- alternatively, a glossy screen which does not only look like but is a capacitative touch screen (I always end up trying to use touch on the macbook air, oh my)

- some other detail which really surprises people and makes you really want to own one of those ...

- linux driver support for all components

edit: - an external blue ray player, thin and matching in style

Still I'm looking forward to hear from people how the build-quality turns out, could be a nice affordable alternative for people looking for a windows notebook!

I want to see my code on the screen not myself!

Who needs these glossy screens?

Matte displays show images more true-to-print too, I prefer my matte display both for programming / being outside / editing photos. I really don't understand why anyone would want a glossy display other than "it's easier to clean"

I think what you will be seeing in the reflection is the illuminated keyboard. Even if they weren't right next to the screen light up keys seem like a silly gimmick to me

All I want for Christmas is for a Linux optimized Ultra Book.

Yes, why does no manufacturer see that they could get a bunch of developers onboard by creating such a product? Is the developer segment really that uninteresting?

> Is the developer segment really that uninteresting?

Yes. It's also much, much more fragmented than you make it out to be. It's not like all developers are waiting with bated breath for the perfect Linux laptop. Many are perfectly happy with what they currently use.

A machine targeted towards developers wouldn't even appeal to the majority of developers, which is already a niche market to begin with. It's quite obvious why nobody does this.

System76 will probably have a rebranded one soon enough.

To get to the spec, click "Buy Xps 13", "Customize and buy", go to "Review and checkout" tab, scroll down - took me 5 minutes of clicking around to get to it. wtf dell.

Is this posted because the Ultrabook is interesting, or because the scroll-to-animate functionality of the website is interesting? For me, it's the latter, since I have long forsaken Dell.

Once the site loaded completely (which took a fair bit of time), I was able to use scrolling to move forward/backward through the animation of the demo. This is certainly an interesting UX, but after about 20 seconds of this I found it cumbersome.

Cumbersome. Yes. Definitely an anti-pattern. I shouldn't have to work so hard to see your stupid marketing campaign. It reminded me of this comic http://i.imgur.com/MgmdP.png

no matter how pretty they make their laptops, they still run crappy software, IMO. i would buy this, wipe it out and load ubuntu, vs using windows. i find the ubuntu experience on dell laptops to be pretty good.

i'm still rocking a e1405 with ubuntu 10.4

Always a good option, although you have to be wary with respect to wireless/wifi drivers. The ubuntu releases tend to trail new hardware for wireless networking by several months for new windows laptops.

good to know. i was curious how the support has been for the wireless/wifi drivers in their newer machines...

No-deal for me; keyboard looks like a piece of plastic: http://www.engadget.com/photos/dell-xps-13-hands-on/#4704588

What is really interesting is not the product itself, but the animation that progresses as you scroll down the page. Very neat!

Basically instead of time controlling the sequence of frames, it is the scroll position.

I found it inconsistent, unintuitive, and jarring.

Bad web designer. No cookie.

Anywhere I can find specs? I mean real specs, with black on white columns containing numbers?

I hate flash so much mostly because it is impossible to get real data out of it. I mean, you support wifi? you don't say!

Why use Flash for a site that's not even that.. flashy? Almost the exact same site could've be done in HTML and Javascript, except potential customers could view it on their iPads, for example.

Wiping windows off, and replacing the HD with a clean Ubuntu install would be the first order of business. To me Keyboard, battery, and lack of fan noise are important in an Ultrabook.

It's only a matter of time until John Gruber is alerted to this, and writes a Dell-bashing response.

I absolutely hate this new bread of "scroll to do some js/flash magic" kind of interfaces.

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