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Comment by argonaut | Hacker News Reader

An infotainment is practically a legal requirement, since backup cameras are mandated by law in the USA. Since you already need a screen and a computer, you might as well add some more functionality.

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My Volvo back up camera now lags because of all of the software updates... I'm pretty sure it's not compliant any more with standards... The updates also reduced original functionality like the 360 degree camera view as a default, which took away a major feature I bought the car for.

I also worry that there may be a point where android auto updates stop completely and the feature goes away altogether due to incompatibility overall... Likely even before the car is 6 years old. These cars aren't made to last anymore... I that case, they should cost a lot less than previous generations, or there should be a solid buyback program in place.

I don't want chat GPT, it is pretty much guaranteed to be obsolete in 4 years.... Just install a hot swappable PC in the car instead perhaps.

That's the issue - might as well not add that functionality. I had a 2014 Ford with a small but adequate screen for the backup cam, and the radio/bluetooth were based on physical buttons and knobs. Perfectly adequate, and preferable to a touchscreen interface.

> backup cameras are mandated by law in the USA

I used to think that was a good idea. But now I have a car with both backup camera and sensors, and I find myself relying much more on the sensors than the camera. It helps that the implementation is intuitive -- slow beeps at 1 meter, then increasing frequency, then continuous beep, then automatic brake.

I love the backup camera, especially since I moved to a city with tiny parking space, which always trigers the beeping sounds left and right (literally). It's so annoying I wish I could disable them.

Most cars there is a button or option to disable. I have this option on my fords. It’s there for example if you add a towing hitch there has to be a disable option somewhere in the menu stack.

That's cool, but can you power it with something larger than a TI-83 please?

Manufacturers are dependent on automotive qualified parts to be available. For reference, a moderate to high end solution might use the Arm a53 cores from 2012, with an A72 if you're lucky. Usually even that gets pushback from beancounters and the fallback will be some chip from TI that makes the z80 in their calculators look almost modern. Couple this with software that has had 0 time allocated to optimization and you can see the issue.

A lot of manufacturers are exploring custom silicon instead, because that's a great way to avoid spending money.

My biggest bugbear here is the overly tight integration. A great many of the problems, from my perspective, are that the days of swapping out a head unit that you hate for one that you like has become largely impractical.

Yep, I’d lose the backup sensor functionality in my Volvo if I replaced mine.

My Volkswagen e-Up has a reverse camera even though it doesn't have what I'd call "infotainment" - just a hyper basic screen for radio, it just happens to also display the camera feed when needed.

Some photos here: https://www.parkers.co.uk/volkswagen/e-up/review/interior/

My backup camera screen is actually in the rear view mirror. There is nothing but a small, monochrome display in the dash, and that just shows the radio station, time and AC temp setting.

and that is a much poorer backup camera than the large display in my dash that adjusts for dim lighting and shows a wider angle than I can see by twisting around to look out the back. The backup camera is safer than a back window in this scenario.

I think what they meant is that the backup camera screen is embedded in the review mirror. I’ve seen those that it’s kinda like a first surface mirror and you can see the screen only when it is turned on. Otherwise it’s mostly invisible.

Bingo. The display is invisible until I pop in reverse, then it lights up through the mirror and takes up they left half. Not as big as an infotainment version, but sufficient.

Sorry for the Amazon link, but I haven't had enough coffee to Google better: https://www.amazon.com/AUTO-VOX-T2-Monitor-Waterproof-Revers...

The videos in the reviews do a better job than the actual product videos of showing what is going on.

I meant that, in my experience, the backup camera screens in the rearview mirror have been too small and with poor tightness and contrast compared to those in the larger infotainment screens.

I feel that a good backup camera system gives you a better view of a wider area than just using the standard rearview mirror or than turning around and looking out the back of the car.

Adding functionality there makes the parts more costly and the extra complexity increases the chance that it fails. You really don't have to add the complexity there, and the bare minimum hardware needed to display a simple camera feed wouldn't be powerful enough to function as an infotainment system anyway.

My '07 Prius has a backup can, but there's no entertainment in its "infotainment" screen unless you count radio preset buttons.

I don't need to be entertained while I drive. I need to drive while I drive.

you think they are using screens with the same capabilities in modern cars as they did 16 years ago?

I think the point was to push back on the notion that a backup cam "requires" a huge tablet screen or an infotainment center.

I used to drive an old Prius - I believe they also had fuel economy tracking, a CD player, and some models had Bluetooth audio too.

You don't? Driving is boring as shit. If you're in city traffic that's one thing but if you're on the freeway with no one around that's another.

It's only boring because all the fun was removed for convenience. Just the third pedal makes it pretty much fun even at low speeds.

Third pedal's fun for the racetrack. In stop and go traffic it's extra work. Still, I'm a member of TMGPS for a reason.

then you are atypical. Most people listen to music, news, podcasts, etc while they drive. that doesn't add much complexity to the system. particularly if the car allows phone projection like CarPlay or Android Automotive.

I have a $15 device that plugs into the 12v socket and broadcasts on a radio frequency. My phone can connect to that by Bluetooth. My radio can be controlled by physical buttons. The only thing the screen displays about the radio is the presets, which I can totally live without.

I do not need an infotainment system. Heck, I don't even need as much as I have.

I feel the same way. My car is 18 years old, also a Toyota, and besides the fact that I could rebuild it as long as anywhere it crashed was in dragging distance of a junk yard, the main reason I've kept it is because it doesn't have anything I don't need, and that somehow means I can trust it.

I see these integrated remote phone-home TV systems that help you parallel park but shrink your windows so it feels like you're in a submarine, and it gives me the willies. We couldn't adjust the AC in my partner's Honda when her screen failed one summer and I thought, "Why are those things connected?!"

I don't have Bluetooth in my car. I don't even have an aux jack. I do have an MP3 CD player, a Garmin, and an unbeatable stereo, and I can operate all of the buttons and dials blindfolded, and they respond with no latency!

I'd take a Yaris over a Tesla, and I wouldn't be caught dead in a Yaris.

Wait... what? WHY?!

Because dogs and children get backed over with regularity. That's why. No other reason.

The manufacturers did not want to have to build these into every car, they wanted to keep charging a premium for it.

> Because dogs and children get backed over with regularity.

8,000 people in the US die every day -- that's as regular as you can get.

Children dying from a vehicle backing over them is _rare_. Obviously, any death or injury is awful, but we're never going to get the number to zero.

The fear of backovers is much greater than the reality.

> The manufacturers did not want to have to build these into every car, they wanted to keep charging a premium for it.

I think it's quite the reverse: now they can pocket that money from every car.

Why would they not want to make yesterday's premium option into today's standard non-option?

> The fear of backovers is much greater than the reality.

You know, the reason so few children die from backover is maybe due to people fearing it?

If safety was a reason half of modern cars would be straight up banned

> Because dogs and children get backed over with regularity. That's why. No other reason.

In general or in those stupid, oversized trucks/SUVs with utterly poor visibility?

Which popularity is due to Corporate Average Fuel Economy?

It's one piece of tech that makes life universally easier. Especially on car dependent continents.

That being said, I'd take large European mirrors that know to go down when car is put in reverse and basic sensor over this any day.

I'm from Europe, so probably that's my surprise. Most of the cars around here are still (I hope we will never reach what's in the US) mostly city-compact cars (VW golf size) so visibility is quite OK and rear mirror + sensor is more than enough.

(though, I'm now in Chile and amount of huge cars/SUVs/trucks/pick-ups on the street is simply mind-boggling... whhhhyyyy on earth one would drive this monstrosity in the city?!)

Personally I'd really like to use that screen with google maps.

That’s what’s great about CarPlay. I put a $200 wireless CarPlay (and AndroidAuto) head unit in my wife’s 2005 CR-V. Her nav is 20x better than my much newer Nissan's factory navigation head unit.

Can't you also use CarPlay in that Nissan? Oh wait, it's Nissan, they probably don't offer it in your trim or model.

It's the top trim of the LEAF. No CarPlay in 2015.

Well I could tell you that in 2017 Infiniti wasn't offering even Bluetooth on someone of their trim. No Bluetooth in 2017 on their "luxury" line? Of course Infiniti didn't offer Carplay long after the competition had it. It's no wonder the other Japanese automakers ate Nissan's lunch.

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