Dependency (on anything) is clearly bad but a gentle dabble in order to explore our world, our brains and the relationship between them seems to me to be necessary, healthy and ...well, fun.
Dependency (on anything) is clearly bad but a gentle dabble in order to explore our world, our brains and the relationship between them seems to me to be necessary, healthy and ...well, fun.
Wouldn't a sober study of the universe and history be more effective?
Once upon a time, people painted with oil paints as closely as they could to still life reality. But something was missing. Cue impressionism. After impressionism, an increasingly vanishingly small proportion of the art world tried to paint still life as an arts career and be taken seriously.
The state of the art, quite simply, had moved on.
And as it is with consciousness.
FTFY
With study vs drugs, the goal is still the same: find out why we're here. Since there isn't a goal change, it's not clear there should be a strategy change.
(No offense to photographers.)
Not all of life is about being more effective and efficient all the time. Sometimes it's worthwhile to see things in a different way, and to open up new ideas.
Our experience of consciousness is entirely our own. If we don’t vary it against a constant background, how do we know what sobriety even is?
Put another way: is the “sober” view of a person with schizophrenic hallucinations truer than that after they’ve taken an antipsychotic?
But I'm not sure that's useful for answering the question of why we exist, why the universe exists.
I’m not advocating for or against the use of mind-altering substances. But a scientist with two microscopes is going to have an edge over one who dogmatically subscribes to their one and only favourite. Even something as simple as observing the sky turns on knowledge of the failure of our neuro-optical pathways qua optical illusions.
If you are looking for an answer that makes sense in relation to your specific context, your life, your consciousness, then drugs might be useful.
What does “effective” mean in this context?
It's probably the most effective, since we're biased towards being capable of analyzing data from those wavelengths, and the atmosphere is transparent to them.
But why would that imply that we can't use tools that let us view how the universe looks with different wavelengths of light to effectively discover new things we otherwise wouldn't?
If not, why would doing a drug make us transformationally better at finding the answer to why we're here?
AFAICS, the only new thing we can learn about the universe by doing drugs is how our brain reacts to drugs.
Each individual human doesn't know everything that happens, consciousness + culture just makes it look like they do, as demonstrated in numerous comments in this thread, and all other threads, on TV, in conversation, etc. Reality itself is composed of various mirages.
Your brain is the most powerful filter we've discovered in the universe. You can take immense amount of noise and separate information from it. The issue with these filters is most of the time you don't realize you have them. How you were raised, the people you're around, the culture you're in can all present bias filters that are impossible to see around since you don't even realize they exist.
It may not be 'figuring it all out', but sometimes just having a filter lowered for a bit letting you realize there is another part of the world exists behind it can be a breakthrough.
But on second thought, we certainly are experiencing some kind of phenomenon of consciousness, even if it's purely an emergent phenomenon of the physical world. And tweaking the experiencing of that consciousness will tend to expose the boundaries of it, even if just at the level of running a fuzzer on a C program or blowing up a balloon too far.
I'm reminded of a quote from the TV series "Weeds". A bit on the nose, I know, but when discussing peyote in the show, one character said, "It's like 30 years of psychotherapy in one night".
In the real world, the scientific community's recent renaissance around the use of psychoactive drugs like psilocybin or MDMA in therapeutic settings is further proof that "substances" can be good.
I guess your point is that psychoactive drugs can speed up thinking about these questions. I guess I could see that. It sounds a bit like how Adderall can speed up people's programming ability.
But do psychedelic drugs help? If I want to write code, would a psychedelic drug help there? If not, why would a psychedelic drug help in finding why I exist?
I find out for most things I’m able to do them without drugs: introspection, joy, shamelessness, behavioral changes, appreciative for small things, etc.
Yesterday, I just “randomly” texted some of my friends that “I loved them” (they thought I was high). Similarly, when I’m in a club I can dance for 5 hours straight —- almost as if nobody was there. I feel (light) depression sometimes but appreciate that it’s a part of life. Etc.
Maybe the thing I’m missing is an out of body experience or completely “losing control”? But what is the value prop for me is something I can’t answer yet.
Another question I have, If the experience is short-lived, what is the point?
Many human activities are short-lived mood alterations.
The experience itself might be a value prop. But I’m more interested in things that can improve my “normal” life. For context, psychedelics sounds interesting to me cause people say they can affect/improve normal life.
> Many human activities are short-lived mood alterations.
Like a vacation I imagine?
Why does there need to be a value prop to it? imo the point (of recreational drug use) is experiencing said beauty for the sake of.
And this is why animal life went extinct... because what's the point of the orgasm.
They've expressed that the experience has lessened the fear for them, and they're better able to do those things (to a small extent at least) without drinking, but would never have been able to so without the initial nudge.
FWIW, I've got a friend that sounds exactly like you - he's pretty much always sober, but is super outgoing, dances all the time, and talks to anyone enthusiastically. He's sometimes been asked to leave clubs we've been at as bouncers assumed he was high on something, and been refused alcohol as bar staff thought he'd had too much already.
It’s fun.
We experience reality filtered through our senses and our own concept of "self," which is an incredibly limited view of the world. Imagine being able to see/experience a less filtered version of reality, if only for a short period of time.
Or imagine expanding the frequencies of visible light you can see. That alone could certainly be a catalyst to change your perspective on many things.
It's not so much "losing control" as it is "losing unconscious bias." Loss of control is not the goal.
It's also one of those things that you have to experience to understand, and even then, sober you won't completely understand.
But done right, these experiences can be incredibly important to people. If it's not for you, fine, but it's funny how many people with zero experience with these substances think there can't be anything worthwhile there.
I think this is the root of the social calamity. It’s an unwillingness and inability to be candid about the entire process that perpetuates the situation.
Why did that person lose interest in aspects of life that other people find perplexing? Haircuts or hard shoes, for example.
We can’t advance until we’re willing to address and enhance the wax wings.
This was very helpful thanks.
Better question: Is it possible to escape this rat cage, and if so, how? If I am the universe experiencing itself, how do I perform a sufficiently perfect playthrough against the gradients that constitute its walls?
Nevermind drugs. Let's get BCI -- the end-all, be-all of humanity -- properly off to the races. Invasively or not, get these thoughts out of the rotting confines of our skulls.
If it doesn't work out, whatever. It's not like that's a different outcome than the rest.
For what (ultimate) purpose? What's the end goal here? The brain already is a computer. What do you think moving its contents to a different type of computer will accomplish?
Besides kicking off just another "think even faster", "calculate even better", "remember even more" rat race, that is.
We all have heard the reports of people losing their minds on drugs and worse.
The subtle dangers are starting to believe that the fun is in the drug.
Drug enthusiasts often glue together the beliefs formed when under the effects, with the pill and chemical reaction itself.
It's not always as explicit as the hippie who preaches a transcendent drug. Often people start to glue together the internal experience of fun, with the drug, unconsciously.
Unfortunately it can subtly dull your day to day life, if you accidently over-allocate associations of fun with chems.
I agree with you. I've always thought the drug problem should be a medical matter handled by doctors and that the law, drug enforcement and cops ought to keep out one's lives when it comes to drugs, but things are never that simple.
The range of drugs is phenomenally broad from essentially harmless to extremely dangerous—some drugs you're never going to OD on to others such as Fentanyl that kills thousands evey year.
How one controls all this and brings order to it in a modern complex society seems overwhelming complex. You can't blame non-drug using people for not wanting intoxicated people driving or in charge of machinery etc. And there are just so many variables involved, the problem seems almost insurmountable.
For example, the effect on those who are around a drug user, family, friends, etc. can be devastating. About a year ago a colleague and friend of mine died from long-term alcohol abuse. What made matters worse he was an organic chemist and he knew what the alcohol was doing to him. We couldn't stop him drinking and many of us tried. Yes, he had the right to do with his life what he wished but at the same time we, his friends and colleagues, had to suffer too by watching him deteriorate.
Essentially, drug taking is not a thing people can do in isolation, drug takers are not decoupled from society, their actions flow-on to the broader community in very complex ways.
I don't have a solution, but I certainly know that banning drugs and treating drug users as degenerates and criminals as we have been doing for over 100 years is stupid and very counterproductive.
So true - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal
I didn't get anything "spiritual" out of them. If anything, it made me realize that spirituality is a complete sham
Hot take, the "spiritual" reason for doing psychedelics is this: they hate their own lives and think that some "transcendental experience" will change that
There's only one legit reason for doing them: to get high. The "spirituality" reason is just a bunch of BS. The people who buy into it are the last ones who should be doing them
Or produce the necessary items on your own. Growing things isn't difficult.
Chances are, someone you already know can hook you up with psychedelics. Try talking to your best friend about it. If he doesn't know, try another friend. You won't need to ask a third friend.
Some of their best wisdom made its way into books that are still around today. If you read these books, you may find throughout they have something to say about the meaning of life and drug use, if only indirectly. You may find their ideas about the meaning of life have nothing to do with drugs.
Their meaning-of-life wisdom has existed for a very long time. In a word, it's Lindy. Your meaning-of-life wisdom is untested by time, theirs is. Time is the greatest filter. We can't say with absolute certainty that your ideas about drug use and the meaning of life are wrong relative to theirs, but we can say so with a very high degree of certainty. People have been testing your ideas about drugs and the meaning of life since the 60's. Many would say it's not going so well. Contrast that with people who've been heeding the old wisdom - there's a reason it's survived for such a long time.
You're of course welcome to forego the age-old wisdom on drugs and the meaning of life in favor of your own, but it may not work out too well for you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoned_ape_theory
And you'll find that most of those people writing those books were on something.
This is what consousness tinkering with drugs is like.
If you could take a backup of our brain from then it would be a common recommendation to take a backup before driving.
If you think along those lines, you could end up concluding that you shouldn't do anything fun or explorative if there's any significant risk at all.