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Comment by bmitc | Hacker News Reader

I think it's fair to say we have one corrupt extremist party and one corrupt inept centrist party.

I used to think they were inept with their messaging; and naive in their drive for bipartisanship, and only slightly, tolerably corrupt.

Their actions expanding wars in the Middle East, extending the Patriot Act, covering for fossil fuel atrocities, prosecuting whistleblowers, failing to end torture or even try very hard, etc, put a lot of doubt on that.

The way they treated Bernie and other progressives has sealed the deal, for me - they weren't the tiniest bit inept all of a sudden.

That was cold, calculating, ruthless, and effective. They took the mask fully off, and I'm startled that so many people still think they're bumbling goons. The hyper-cynical way Dem elites managed to blame Sanders for Hillary's loss killed my last shred of hope for America to turn things around.

I guess this could be considered off-topic, or flamebait. But it's important.

I think the Dems have to act like they're supporting regular people, but actually support their wealthy elite benefactors, and that dichotomy is what makes them look inept. "Tax cuts for the wealthy? The Republicans made us do it, we didn't have a choice!"

This always makes me chuckle. It is an objective fact[0] that the Dems have moved dramatically leftward while Republicans have generally held the same position for the last 20 years. Anyone who tells you that republicans are 'extremists' is trying to scare you to the polls.

[0] https://archive.is/MtAJv

Your citation is based on a sketchy statistical interpretation based only each party’s platform. National party platforms are mostly irrelevant documents in the US, e.g., state party platforms regularly contradict them. See for example the Texas GOP platform from 2022 and 2020.

Two examples.

About twenty years ago they spearheaded modest-to-mediocre efforts at expanding Medicare; today, post-ACA, the party seems intent on an unprecedented degree of privatization and deregulation.

In 2002, GWB was able to mandate increased military smallpox vaccinations with little to no resistance; now almost all GOP party members are on the record as against any form of vaccination mandate (exception: Gov. DeWine of Ohio, who famously received hundreds of death threats from his own partisans over the issue).

I intentionally chose the tamest examples of a substantial platform change in the GOP over the past twenty years, but many more come to mind.

Bill Clinton was a fan of deregulation and would be considered an "extreme far right" politician in today's "centrist" Democratic Party.

Okay, but how is that relevant to the claim that the GOP has been static for the past twenty years?

[0] only seems to indicate that Republicans have consistently been an extremist party for 20 years, as stated in the comment you replied to, regardless of which way the Democrats have moved.

Defunding the police and de facto allowing the burglary of any items below $900 are "centrist" views in other parts of the world?

What utter bullshit. You think the party of Trump and DeSantis has the same positions and values as the party of Bush and Reagan?

To say nothing of Nixon's support of environmental conservation (eg, the EPA), school integration, affirmative action, and the Equal Rights Amendment.

How can you look at San Francisco and not see how its policies are not working? How delusional can one be?

What does that have to do with anything?

> The Republican Party leans much farther right than most traditional conservative parties in Western Europe and Canada, according to an analysis of their election manifestos. It is more extreme than Britain’s Independence Party and France’s National Rally (formerly the National Front), which some consider far-right populist parties.

Did you really link something which opens by calling the Republican party extremely far-right as evidence that they aren't that?

The GOP is an American party, which represents American citizens and competes for American votes. Until the GOP opens up shop in the EU, the notion that they are "extreme" because of the opinions of European voters is utterly nonsensical.

> Did you really link something which opens by calling the Republican party extremely far-right as evidence that they aren't that?

This should be obvious from the fact that I shared it, don't you think? I'm confident that the average HN user is perfectly capable of reading through the Times' biases and getting to the underlying facts, even if you had trouble.

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