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Comment by danybittel | Hacker News Reader

I believe "Loneliness" is a misnomer. The misery people feel when they are "alone" is not the lack of other people but the lack of connection. More precisely the disconnect with nature, oneself and to a lesser extend the community. A psychologist who studied loneliness said that the best remedy is time spend in the forest. If lonely people go and force themself to get around other people, they usually drag everybody down.

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I spent a year in more isolated parts of a war zone. I almost never felt "alone" because of the bonds I had with people while living life out there and daily tasks I needed to accomplish. I filled a lot of my time fixing stuff that had been ignored due to a lack of expertise and bureaucracy, which gave me a sense of purpose. I'd done harsh activities like burn duty, long watches, long patrols/convoys/missions and never felt they were a burden.

Just before I left I returned to a larger base with many more people and I felt the loneliness wash over me like an ocean current. The day I was assigned to burn duty, which I'd done before as a community responsibility, because I was late to something put me in tears, mainly because I realized the people I worked with at a larger base were not actually my friends and we did not share a bond. I had left those people behind.

My theory is that the forest requires you to do certain things every day so that you survive, which was one component of my avoided loneliness. If you do just this for a long time I'd suspect loneliness will still set in. You need people and, probably, a variety of them.

Would be interesting to see this study. I personally feel more lonely in nature, especially in forests. I need the energy of big cities to feel a warm glow. I suspect I’m not the only one and there’s a large percentage of the population who are similar to me.

When I used to live in small towns, I would have a strong need to periodically visit a big city to restore my emotions. I love the feeling of being in a crowd even if I never talk to anyone. I love the bustle and noise and potential for new encounters.

Nature feels isolating to me. I wonder if I’m wired this way because I grew up in a big city. We’re wired to look for places where we can feel we’re “at home”, and that’s usually a function of childhood experiences.

I think I am same as you. I recently noticed that listening to birds singing make me feel incredibly melancholic. I was very lonely for a few years. I was listening to the singing a lot when I was at my place, and now I have associated birds singing and loneliness. It is unfortunate that something so calming and beautiful now makes me feel sad. It has become the sound of loneliness to me.

I agree that it might be due to where we grow up ... I grew up in a forest on an island with few people living within walking distance. But I've been living in a small city for about 14 years, and more and more I long to go back to living somewhere were there aren't all these people around. Or more importantly, to somewhere so much more _quiet_.

Disagree, I enjoy hanging out in nature, and when it’s not possible I usually look at images on nature subreddits like r/earthporn. Always manages to calm me.

Sure. But consider that not everyone is like you. There has been a normalization of nature lovers in our time (mostly correlated with upbringing and environment, but in some cases possibly partly correlated with affluence ironically — most of my nature loving friends like spending money at REI and posting nature photos — if that was my hobby I would too — yet I notice that there’s a kind of mimesis going on where it’s now cool to love nature) and it’s an interesting reversal because in my day the opposite was true in my milieu (in a big city, so self selected population).

I come from survivalist stock where my parents escaped smaller more rural places to make it in the city hence the opposite orientation. When my family moved from the downtown core to a more sparsely populated new development closer to nature (forest preserve next door) for my dad’s job, my grandmother and rest of the family felt it was “too quiet”. They missed the connections they had with the fishmongers and shopkeepers and the thriving commercial activity and convenience of being able to buy stuff.

I suspect there is a bias that we see online because those who comment on sites like this and Reddit tend to be introverts and there’s an intrinsic bias toward solitary activities like being in nature. I find the numbers to be more even in the non tech forum population.

These two aren't mutually exclusive tbh, both being in rural areas and cities has its pluses and minuses. Living in some area that's on the edge of a city that lets you have both seems like a good compromise to that. Nature a short walk one way, practicality and connectivity a short walk the other way.

I grew up in a small rural area and experience this in the opposite direction. Sometimes I just need to get away from people, there's too many of them and crowds can be nerve wracking, not to mention noisy.

There is nowhere on earth I am happier than at a family member's camp, deep in the woods away from everyone all by myself. Ultimately I think your last point is absolutely correct. I doubt I'd feel this way if this wasn't a lived experience while growing up.

Yes. I used to live in a smaller city and my friends were from even smaller places (small towns, farms). They have a relationship with open space and with crowds that I don’t have. This is particularly pronounced here in the US where there’s vast expanses and people love their backyards. I never had backyard growing up and never missed it.

When I told them about my dream home being a 500 sq ft apartment in the middle of a bustling metropolis, they said the first thought they had was “claustrophobia”.

But for me, small spaces in dense areas give me joy — living in the midst of an exciting morass of people where people collide in Brownian motion and new ideas form feel like happiness. This notion is much more common in denser places like Europe and Asia.

Being alone in the city, "alone in the crowd", feels just as lonely if not more so for me than walking alone in the forest. The latter I expect to be alone, but in the former, I'm surrounded by people but with no connection. It's a strange feeling.

There’s a new lot coined word “sonder” that describes being alone in the city and observing others and wondering about their inner lives. As a writer this fills me with warmth rather than loneliness.

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/sonder#:~:text=(file)-,Verb...)

There's a difference between "being alone" and "loneliness". Being alone in the city or the forest can be great. Being lonely, less so.

Forest, ocean, desert wandering, anything that will take you out of your norm and reconnect with nature (and oneself) will help. I went through loss and found myself pretty lonely and disconnected. I went sailing, against the better judgement of my wallet, to reconnect and prove (again) to myself that I’m amazing. I have strong will though so YMMV. Tell me I can’t do something and I will make it my mission to do it.

If you are struggling with connection, stop thinking. Really. Stop thinking about whatever is going on with you and start listening. Talk with people and get to know them. Use that to determine if you would like to keep that person in your life or not. Connections are easy to make when you aren’t trying to force it. Just let that guard down, realize we all have a story, and ask folks who they are and they will gladly tell you. If you struggle with making conversation then I suggest you start there. Say Hi to anyone within 20 feet of you today. If they are there longer than 5 minutes, strike up a conversation. Make a joke. Commend them on their clothes or shoes or something visible. Show some empathy for what they are going through at the moment and you’ll be making friends in no time.

I think this is good advice, but I'm often surprised that the advice isn't more formulaic.

Like, "5 questions to ask someone you've just met." It might not be the best approach but I'm sure it's better than standing around. Some examples that spring to mind. "What brought your here to day?", "what's the best way to remember your name?", "where was the last place you went on holiday?". Etc.

I suspect that for people who are "bad" at connection any practice is good. I like to keep a pack of cards in my pocket for a couple magic tricks, as I can always then ask "would you like to see a trick?" Very rarely is the answer no.

But then could I honestly say any of this moves the dial drastically? Probably not, but I do meet more interesting people than I think I would otherwise.

I think if I were to make a blog post or something I would come up with a list like that. I was just shooting some advice off the cuff.

What tricks do you do? Sleight of hand stuff?

I used to go hiking alone often, but after some wildlife encounters and near-misses with injury I decided I’d rather be with a group. At campsites I tend to be too alert to fall asleep, but the sounds of other campers nearby give me enough comfort to relax. Natural environments reinforce, not lessen, how we need each other.

I have to laugh, because I literally just got back from a week in the forest. I have a spot I escape to that I charge my laptop every night and then in the mornings I can drive up and work from my laptop overlooking an old growth forest in bc. And I get more work done, feel the best about myself, and just overall feel the modern society stress way less.

It’s funny because I found myself feeling very isolated and lonely the last few few weeks and without even thinking my body just packed a bag and drove out to this spot. And I have to say, I feel a million times better if anyone out there is craving the same thing.

> they usually drag everybody down

This is weirdly concerned with other people in the context of mental health advice for someone. "You're a bummer, go hide in a forest so we don't have to see you."

Another distinction that will be helpful is between loneliness and solitude. Spending time with yourself in the forest, reflecting or enjoying your company would be the latter for me.

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