Soybean oil decreases oxytocin levels in hypothalamus in mice (2020) | Hacker News Reader

Soybean oil decreases oxytocin levels in hypothalamus in mice (2020)

neurosciencenews.com

53 pointsroseway451 comments

tldr: soy oil, and not other oils or other soy products, cause some changes in gene expression in mice that could be linked to various diseases

(not "genetic changes". this is a badly written article)

It’s just dumbed down for the common reader - gene expression could very well be simplified as a genetic change when trying to write an ELI5.

It’s male mice only.

Im not sure about where Soy oil fits in, but there seems to be growing evidence that oils made from seeds, often called vegetable oils, are in fact quite bad for you especially when used for cooking.

Walnut, almond, sunflower oil are not bad for you. They're expensive.

Vegetable oil as you know it and it's sold is soybean oil. Maybe another cheap oilseed like canola or corn, but that's it because it's cheap.

Peanut oil is so expensive/valuable that the peanut oil is usually extracted and replaced with palm oil,which has its own environmental issues, before the rest of the peanut is used to make peanut butter.

Sunflower oil is in the same category as soybean and canola oil, industrially extracted from seeds and consisting of the type of omega-6 that in any but the most miniscule amounts are harmful in a number of ways, and a poor source of metabolic energy to boot.

Walnut, almond, etc., are good for us, but in small amounts, and don't keep well or withstand heat, all of which make them unsuitable for cooking.

We need to go back to saturated and monounsaturated fats, they are fine, and not actively harmful like the garbage waste products that are 'vegetable oils'.

> consisting of the type of omega-6 that in any but the most miniscule amounts are harmful in a number of ways, and a poor source of metabolic energy to boot.

I have been hearing this for years, but I have never found a reputable scientific source for this claim about omega-6 and omega-3. All I can find are sketchy websites trying to sell something.

I hear this a lot but have never seen anything other than hypothetical mechanisms. I’d be interested to see actual evidence, if there’s any you can share. I’m cautious here because it’s the kind of thing that plays to my own bias.

There is a lot of evidence but at the very least, it is accepted that these omega-6 oils are pro-inflammatory.

Oils made from :

seeds- gingelly oil, groundnut oil, sunflower oil, coconut oil, rice bran oil.

Fruit- olive oil, Palmoline oil

Sunflower oil is made from sunflower seeds, not the whole flower.

Coconut oil is made from the 'flesh', which is the solid endosperm, which is part of the seed.

Avocado oil is also made from the fruit not the seed.

I currently mostly use coconut oil or butter for cooking and olive oil for taste (salads, hummus).

I don't understand any of the science that I've tried to read (and watch). How misc fats like PUFAs metabolize and so forth.

The Fire In a Bottle guy has explainer videos. Alas, I'm in no way competent enough to judge how good that info is. It seems to jive with other advice, eg Dr Terry Wahls and Dr Rhonda Patrick and Dr Peter Attia. But what do I know? https://fireinabottle.net https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjt6C_7Vgw4&list=PLo4Cmo9MNY...

Nor am I able to assess tradeoffs. Like with the nootropics stuff, I worry about over optimizing (or just plain wasted effort), where the rewards don't merit the effort.

My impression is the metabolism science is progressing quickly. Esp wrt cholesterol. (I have a stubbornly high LDL, hence my interest.) I'm optimistic that sooner than later some consensus will emerge and some one can just tell me the correct answer and I can get back to coding.

The oil is soybean oil and other than that clickbit, the article is actually interesting, but is from 2020 so the link should be updated.

In a couple of years they will realize that cooking in animal fat was the healthier choice all along.

Not for the animals.

This oil probably wasn't cooked, or used for frying. If they can isolate the active ingredient it would be worthwhile checking the heat stability of said ingredient. Maybe soy oil needs to be reduced in uncooked form (such as for salad or dipping oils) but is fine to use for frying. Maybe it's problematic regardless.

If this effect is also present in humans, I wonder whether people who have been using soy oil for many generations have genetically or epigenetically adapted to moderate or eliminate this effect.

It's time to bring back Olestra. You heard it here first.

Please don’t post seed oil truther discourse here.

Why is it that it's only sketchy websites like this that report on soybean oil and other seed oils? Surely if it were such a big deal, reputable news outlets would have picked up the story, no? What's going on here? Is the whole thing bullshit? Or is big seed oil covering it up?

I think you are out of the loop. You say 'big seed oil' like it's a joke, but that's certainly a thing and a major lobby. There's a reason margerine was promoted as the healthy choice for decades (without 'reputable news sources' picking up on that it is, in fact, poison, and now illegal in most countries).

If the lobby is so powerful then why is it illegal in most countries?

> now illegal in most countries

This is news to me, would you mind providing a citation or two?

I always assume these articles are for out of shape people checking their phones while eating McDonalds french fries pretending to worry about their health or really in shape people that only eat organic quail eggs.

I just really doubt that seed oils vs some other fat would be my downfall.

Science Daily reported on it too: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200117080827.h...

And of course the Endocrine society did: https://endocrinenews.endocrine.org/eureka-2020-part-i-top-e...

A possible reason for "reputable" news outlets to not report on this is that the link between soybean oil and diabetes/obesity was already known. This paper demonstrates some specific gene regulation effects, but other than the oxytocin-insulin link any other effects are more speculatory.

This information is a decade old. The answer is don't let anyone else dictate what goes in your mouth, and you are, and they'll give you soybean or rapeseed (oops, canola). It's in every fryer in the land, and you lie to yourself to think otherwise.

Centuries later after Pax Americana ends historians will be talking about soybean oil like we talk about lead pipes in Rome.

You can also add corn syrup in the mix for good measure..

Why are people so weird about corn syrup? If you're fine with other forms of refined sugar you should be fine with corn syrup and vice versa. People make what is essentially corn syrup in the form of invert sugar from sugar cane.

Probably ignorance of chemistry.

I always have a fun time when people demonize fructose, and then I point out its completely natural organic fruit sugar. (I mention natural and organic in the colloquial way, not the actual definition)

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructolysis:

> Unlike glucose, which is directly metabolized widely in the body, fructose is almost entirely metabolized in the liver in humans, where it is directed toward replenishment of liver glycogen and triglyceride synthesis.

They are not the same.

Agree that corn syrup is not much worse and essentially the same as refined sugar, but they are both bad in large amounts and added everywhere to our foods.

Yes. Industrial seed oils are the next gluten. The biohacking community has been up on this for a decade or so. The quick headline is the healthiest fats are first tier: animal fat (meat/tallow/ghee) and olive oil, second tier: avocado, coconut. Third tier: more controversial but i believe a few specialty seed/nut oils apply- sesame, walnut, a few others. Basically that’s it, everything else comes with health risks, inflammation, and apparently hormone and other healthy gene expression. “vegetable”, soy, canola, corn“ are all inflammatory and problematic. It’s a good idea to avoid.

Change in gene expression != change in genes.

Maybe we will pay attention to lifestyles when obesity reaches 90% of the population. It’s only half right now.

I really dont see how soybean oil in by itself causes obesity as is stated in the article. If you don exceed your daily caloric intace then you wont gain weight no matter what kind of oil you eat.

Probably that part:

> potentially impacting energy metabolism

CICO is mostly true if you already have a balanced diet, if you eat 2000kcal of ultra processed food you'll have side effects you wouldn't have with a cleaner diet. The body is a fine tuned machine, it doesn't process 100kcal of sugar the same way it processed 100kcal of broccoli

Whilst that is true, in neither case will it extract the full kcal, since that was calculated by completely burning the food (in a calorimeter). If you burn more than 100kcal you will not gain weight no matter what. You might still get fatter, but your total mass cannot increase if you burn more calories than you consume unless you violate conservation of energy.

I am so weirded out that almost nobody seems to acknowledge that calorie numbers have no actual meaning with the way digestion processes food in a human body. Relying on food consumption advice that's based on calorie numbers and math is invariably wrong, the only way it might happen to have any meaningful impact is because low numbers mean lower overall quantities.

Also the way calories are "counted" in exercise is absolutely bogus for individuals because it rarely takes into account their physiology and basically uses made up numbers of various exercise types.

Creating mass out of nothing is literally impossible.

Sure, but creating mass out of calories that would instead go into the toilet is not.

I am guessing that chronic inflammation can lead to weight gain through fluid leakage into tissues (effectively trapping more non-caloric water weight in the body).

https://open.oregonstate.education/aandp/chapter/26-1-body-f...

> Figure 26.1.8 – Edema: An allergic reaction can cause capillaries in the hand to leak excess fluid that accumulates in the tissues.

Unless you're a theoretical water container and you burn the food to heat yourself it's much much much more complicated than that

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/science-reveals-w...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3396444/

Some foods can cause your satiety system to go bad and you then feel hungry and consume more food. Not everyone counts calories and says "oh, I've eaten too much today, better stop", some people (like me) actually feel real pain when they are hungry and going hungry lowers you willpower which you need to keep not eating and inflict pain on yourself.

Literally everyone feels pain when hungry. The trick is realizing its perfectly goddamn normal and you don't have to eat a 1000 calorie meal because of hunger pains.

It's certainly more complicated than that. I spent a year and a half trying to be in a calorie deficit, meticulously tracking every calorie and wasn't able to lose weight, because I wasn't able to stay in a calorie deficit long enough.

Recently switched to keto, which has the primary function of lowering insulin levels and reduction of feelings of hunger. And within 2 months I'm 18 lbs down.

It's not simply a matter of Calories in/calories out, the kinds of calories you eat matter. 2000 calories of donuts vs 2000 of beef are vastly different nutrient profiles and you will have corresponding health effects accordingly.

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