The Israeli weapons and spyware falling into the hands of despots
ft.com
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These are being sold directly to these despots with the approval of the Israeli government.
Their options seem to be 1) continue to become like South Africa pre-Mandela or 2) become a minority in a country that was originally intended to be a Jewish homeland.
There are also great differences between what happened in South Africa and Israel such as:
1. Historical connection to the land
2. Completely different proportions of populations involved
3. Legal state of Arab minority in Israel
4. Legal state in occupied territories, namely their own self government and parliament (West Bank) or complete control (Gaza)
"For a more scientific take on the Jewish origin debate, recent DNA analysis of Ashkenazic Jews – a Jewish ethnic group – revealed that their maternal line is European. It has also been found that their DNA only has 3% ancient ancestry which links them with the Eastern Mediterranean (also known as the Middle East) – namely Israel, Lebanon, parts of Syria, and western Jordan. This is the part of the world Jewish people are said to have originally come from – according to the Old Testament. But 3% is a minuscule amount, and similar to what modern Europeans as a whole share with Neanderthals. So given that the genetic ancestry link is so low, Ashkenazic Jews’ most recent ancestors must be from elsewhere."
"The tolerance of the Persians encouraged the Jews to adopt Persian names, words, traditions, and religious practices, and climb up the social ladder gaining a monopoly on trade. They also converted other people who were living along the Black Sea, to their Jewish faith. This helped to expand their global network.
Among these converts were the Alans (Iranian nomadic pastoral people), Greeks, and Slavs who resided along the southern shores of the Black Sea. Upon conversion, they translated the Old Testament into Greek, built synagogues, and continued expanding the Jewish trade network."
"The Asian group of these DNA mutations, found in Ashkenazic Jews, likely originated from the Ashina elite and other Khazar clans, who converted from Shamanism to Judaism. This means that the Ashina and core Khazar clans were absorbed by the Ashkenazic Jews." - ["Ashkenazic Jews’ mysterious origins unravelled by scientists thanks to ancient DNA" (2018)](https://theconversation.com/ashkenazic-jews-mysterious-origi...)
However, the entire ‘Ashkenazi Jews are Khazar’ theory has antisemite origins, and it is well known that Jews were already all over Europe at the times of the Roman Empire, way before any Khazar entity
[1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/haredi-population-growing-twic...
US/Canada are the top options I wish Netanyahu and his ultra religious gang good luck
[1] https://www.statista.com/chart/18417/global-weapons-exports/
What I’m saying is that international “morales” are extremely relative. One day Israel is criticized for bombing houses in Gaza by the US, another day the US bombs weddings in Afghanistan largely unnoticed.
Are they both bad? sure. Is it fair? irrelevant.
However, if you are making an argument for example that asymmetric warfare requires attacking targets in dense civilian population and sometimes mistakes happen, then it is absolutely essential to compare to other countries.
And people that shout “whataboutism” on knee jerk are not helping anyone
i didn’t subscribe to moral relativism. I didn’t say that there is no moral truth, I said in international politics morality is often used cynically to project power.
However, let’s disengage from this argument as I can sense aggressiveness and insincerity in your style of discussion
> I agree with you
where that is "you", and not "one"?
I find it fascinating that you are doing exactly what you accuse me of, where you are assuming things that are not true. This generally happens (in my experience) where people are unable to disassociate their opinions from their "self", and here I am making a direct inference that this applies to you as well.
Happy to continue the discussion, although it seems you might be unable to split emotions from logic.
Okay? And that somehow makes Israel exempt here, or something? Two wrongs make a right? We can't discuss Israel without making sure more "major" countries fix themselves first?
Help me out here, I'm not sure I see where you're going with this.
It doesn't. But it's irresponsible journalism to write an article of this sort without admitting that every single arms exporter sells to autocracies.
Again, it's a book review. The correct thing to do is discuss the books, both of which surely mention that other countries sell to autocracies.
Blaming Israel, is either anti-Semitism, that's it's only with criticism when people representing Jews do it, or colonialism, that it's only bad when it's not western powers doing it.
It's only a story because it's Israel, and Israel is seen as lesser than France or the USA
Did you read it? It was a book review of two books that covered Pegasus and Israeli defence exports.
Israeli MICs primarily make money off IP licensing, not exports.
Companies like Rafael, IAI, Elbit, Elta, etc will generate the core IP and then sell the IP and co-manufacture with MICs in countries like South Korea, Taiwan, France, USA, Italy, and India.
This is the same business model that France used with Israel in the 70s, and also acts as a way for Israel to not piss off Western allies and generate revenue because a first world country with 9 million citizens can only manufacture so much.
The tools totalitarian & authoritarian systems - in particular - use to keep themselves in power are often information tools. Their challenge is to suppress the population. The first challenge there-in is identifying who your potential enemies are. No bomb will tell you that. Hacking your citizens phones will tell you that. Israel's special craft here is thus immensely alluring to thr worst of the worst.
Can you really trust them, or Apple? It's like trusting Kapersky or any Chinese/Russian software anymore, but habitually and inexplicably they land on the side of right still.
A lot of the weapons systems Israel sells are R&Ded and developed wholly by Israel, so they don't need the secondary approval from the US or France (though French MICs don't really care about approvals outside of IP transfers).
Israeli dependancy on American R&D has been waning since the 2000s and at least in the cybersecurity space has flipped the other way around where American companies are now dependant on Israeli technologies and innovations.
This decoupling from American Military R&D has happened in South Korea, Japan, Saudi, and Turkiye as well for over 20 years now due to tensions with North Korea (JP and SK) and Iran+Syria (IL, KSA, and TK).
The last major piece of Israeli military hardware that requires an export license from the US is THAAD and the Patriot missle system.
Israel largely decoupled from the US from a foreign policy and military hardware perspective by the middle of the Obama administration due to the Iran Nuclear program.
While what you are describing was kind of true in the 80s and 90s, that era is long gone.
Russia seems to be short of all weapons so this would surprise me. I have zero expertise in this area, I just read about it a fair bit.
And it is bizarre, but I guess they have extra jets to spare.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iran-buy-su-35-fig...
> By June 2022, Russia had not achieved air superiority, having lost around 165 of its combat aircraft over Ukraine which amounted to approximately 10% of its frontline combat strength. Western commentators noted the qualitative and quantitative advantages the Russian Air Force had over its Ukrainian counterpart, but attributed the poor performance of Russian aviation to the extensive ground-based anti-aircraft capabilities of the Ukrainians.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_warfare_in_the_Russia...
What Russia has is lots of Cold War era equipment that they are sending into Ukraine. It'll do, as they don't put a price on human life. It's a war of attrition at this point. The moment we give up on Ukraine is the moment they start winning.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/tattered-and-bandaged-russian-p...
The trend is very bad for them either way.
https://asiatimes.com/2023/06/ukraine-plays-light-brigade-wi...
The manufacturing capacity no longer exists in Russia c. 2023 so Russian MICs have begun working on IP Licensing deals with MICs in Iran, China, and India.
For a lot of weapon systems and technolgies (eg. Jet Engines, EWS, etc) Russian IP is comparable to that within NATO+.
That said, having cutting edge IP is useless when execution is badly managed (eg. A2AD, Joint Forces Operations, Logistics).
Btw, this is why you are seeing US strategymakers concentrate on the PRC now - if a mujahid with a rusty AK-47 left over in 1988 can still kill a Green Beret in Ghazni, now imagine if we are facing a nation with the technical capabilities of the US in the 1990s and 2000s.
“Iran's nuclear program was launched in the 1950s with the help of the United States under the Atoms for Peace program”
Maybe there are actual examples, but this isn't one of them.
In any case ComputerGuru is rightly distinguishing between stolen leaked weapons versus deliberately selling them. He's not saying that that it hasn't happened, merely that he chosen example was trash.
Does that sound reasonable? It is a very week justification and raises the question "are we the baddies?".
I don't see how we have the moral authority to point fingers here.
And in the case of cyber weapons, NSO group, an israeli company, do sell their services to anyone willing to pay.