Hacker News Reader

Comment by mlrtime | Hacker News Reader

How did you avoid paying the 3% (In your example) buyers fee? Did you just refuse to work with any agents? For most people this will not work.

View on HN

Excellent question. PropBox is not a real estate company. It is a technically advanced media/advertising company that is specializing in advertising homes. The seller purchases an ad for a dedicated web page that benefits the seller and the buyer. They are in control, they make all the decisions, and they do all the work. A buyer can pay a buyer agent, a seller can choose to go a different route. We are not listing homes. We believe many home buyers and sellers are looking for an alternative to the the two choices that were available until we launched yesterday. Now there is a third choice, PropBox. A platform that provides both parties the same information and allows them to work directly together. We believe some customers will like the ease of use, the ability to speak with the seller who knows more about the house than any agent, and much more. Both parties will like the ability to better control and easily communicate with each other within the platform. PropBox is not avoiding the 3%, the customer is avoiding the 3%. I hope this answers your question. Thank you for asking.

Your marketing copy should communicate this.

>PropBox is not a real estate company. It is a technically advanced media/advertising company that is specializing in advertising homes. The seller purchases an ad for a dedicated web page that benefits the seller and the buyer.

1) What PropBox is in simple terms the customer would use.

2) How it works (from the customer perspective).

Wow. This is very helpful. Thank you.

Glad I could help! Good luck on your journey.

Thank you.

there's not any listings in my area, southern Utah. Have you thought of maybe using MLS so buyers can at least see all available options in their area. Then flag as premium/featured homes that are listed without an agent or FSBO?

If I go to your website today and see no homes, I'm probably not coming back even if you add 1000 in my area tomorrow. How would I even know?

Using existing data and listings as an aggregate with a special built in marketplace IMHO would provide more value to all parties.

Excellent question: How would I ever know? If you never came to the platform there are still ways you may know. In our tiny test market(tiny is 4 sales), all four buyers came from our unique yard sign. All four sellers came from word of mouth. If 1000 properties in your are listed, that suggests 50 will sell in a year. How many would use a PropBox ad is unknown, but you may see a yard sign. I understand you logic and believe some will not come back. But lets see what it looks like in six months.

Where I am at least, the 3% x2 commissions are just a customary commission share. Technically the listing agent charges whatever they want and shares whatever they want. Usually they charge 6% and share half. But there no obligation to offer buyers commission on the MLS listing. I put 0%. I felt like being on the MLS would sort this out, most shoppers would see the listing regardless and their agent can decide what to do at that point (I'd bet they'd show it if the buyer was interested)

If they're on MLS, they'll be on Zillow.

Buyers these days do a lot of their own searching. If a buyer finds the listing on Zillow via MLS, it won't stop them from viewing the house even if they have an agent.

Once they view the house, the owner could convince them to ditch the agent. I mean honestly, what does the average agent do for a client? Not very much.

This matches my experience as a buyer as well. It won’t get you 100% of the buyers, but it will get you way over 50% and likely over 75%.

If I was working with an agent, I’m sure they’d discourage me from that listing, but as a seller in a reasonable market, I’m willing to give up a few possible buyers to save 5-6% on a 7-figure transaction. (I’ve also seen FSBOs that offer X% to buyer agents.)

I will say that agents did do some work to make the transaction complete on both of my house purchases. Negotiations after the inspection can be tense and a good agent can help both sides get to the closing table.

PropBox would be very happy with buyers at 50 percent of the market. PropBox believes that there are good agents but there are way too many not so good agents. It is hard to distinguish what kind of agent you have until you start working with them.

> way too many not so good agents

This is exactly my experience. In shopping for my first house, I had a clear idea of what I wanted and a budget that matched that and the first four agents I worked with were nearly useless. (This was before web-MLS was a thing.) The fifth was a breath of fresh air and I would happily use them again.

Are you saving 5-6% but selling at 10% less than you could? In some markets bidding wars are common. The extra 25-50% of bidders pushes up the price usually worth more than 5%

sokoloff, on the point about the second negotiation on the inspection. The industry has this backwards. We recommend the per-purchase inspection for several reasons. 1. It takes the liability away from the seller stating what the condition is and moves it to the inspector. 2. by sharing it with the buyer before they make an offer you save them a bit of money, earn some trust as showing transparency, and 3. eliminating the stress of the second negotiation 10 days before closing and no one is available to fix a problem. You are making your home easier to buy. The easier you make it for the buyer, the faster you will sell and the better your price will be. Most buyers want a home in great condition.

Your observation is right on. The industry believes they perform a valuable service. PopBox believes that technology has already changed the playing field. Real estate agents job description, work environment, and compensation will change. Today they work in a 100 year old, inefficient system. PropBox uses technology to do the same work, with the customers help faster, easier and much more efficiently. This standardization and efficient process drives cost way down, and gives the customer what they want, a fast, simple, easy to use tool that puts them in control. Technology allows consumers to access the same information as the agent. This fact devalues the service, but has done little to devalue the price. We are hopeful enough customers recognize this and will save significant money with 10 to 12 hours of their time. If our test market hours of work hold up as we grow, our customers will save two thousand to six thousand dollars per hour. The customers success is our success.

PropBox is not a real estate company. PropBox is a tech enabled platform that sells an ad to home sellers. It is a uniquely designed ad that offers options, not advice, to home sellers and buyers. We believe consumers of real estate are smart and when they have the options in front of them can chose which one is best.

It appears as if PropBox has no users/listings.

Hello, Conductr. We now have one in Denver, and one waiting for a photographer on Seattle. The Seattle person is in this thread. He has a two million dollar home. If he is right, and the home sells, he will save $100K. Several more assking questions. We didn't expect to have any for a month or two. It will ramp up, slowly at first, tben begin to accelerate and scale. Hopefully. Doing a few things behind the scenes to throw a little gas on the fire.

> Once they view the house, the owner could convince them to ditch the agent. I mean honestly, what does the average agent do for a client? Not very much.

Most Buyer Agency agreements operate on the basis of "if we show a house to you, and you buy it, we are owed a commission regardless of if you terminate the agreement afterwards". Now, typically a real estate agent isn't about to sue their clients if they purchase FSBO, since that would mean suing them for a 2.5 or 3% commission the seller wasn't even offering to the buyer agent, but it does mean that you can't get agent 1 to show a house, then switch to another agent, without agent 1 getting paid.

Even if someone was driving by and pulled in the driveway and saw the house without the agent present?

Do buyer agent agreements require you buy a house through them even if you find the house and view the house and negotiate the price with the seller yourself?

(I’ve never relied on an agent for these things, I did everything myself when buying my first/only house)

Some have exclusivity agreements that require that, but they're pretty unpopular (because it's also intimidating for a buyer to sign). What I described is a non-exclusive showing agreements, where they only get compensation if they helped in showing the house or completing the transaction (like drafting the contracts).

In my state if you sign a buyer agency agreement, describe the property you are looking for and it is dated. You are obligated to pay in most situations. If you can prove abandonment you can likely get off the hook. Every state has their own laws and rules so be certain know what those laws and rules are. Also read the contract carefully. In my state there is a clause that if the listing broker doesn't pay the buyer agent, or doesn't pay enough to satisfy your fee, you are obligated to pay. I never liked that sentence. Thanks for your questions

When I began selling real estate in 1966 the legal theory in place was "Caveat Emptor" or let the buyer beware. There were many complaints and over the years the theory drifted to "Caveat Venditor" or let the seller beware. Most states have gone this route but I believe there are one or two states doing let the buyer beware.I cannot find information that quantifies the actual number of complaints, but my experience is that the complaints are about the same. This suggests that neither theory works in practice. I wrote about this[1] several years ago. The article gives you a common sense take on agency [1]https://dearmonty.com/is-your-buyer-agent-legitimate/

Reply on news.ycombinator.com