> For instance, he said, agency is now “wrestling” with the legality of whether agents can lift up the lid of a trash can without committing trespass.
Um, I thought it was pretty well-established that you cannot do this? Is the FBI just stupid?
Um, I thought it was pretty well-established that you cannot do this? Is the FBI just stupid?
I believe the same applies to alleyways.
(IANAL and I don't know the specific legal arguments.)
Again, I don't know all the arguments, but you can, for example, leave your bicycle on public property without losing your property rights to it. (For that matter, you can park your car on a public street.)
I believe the convention is that, when you've placed your trash for pickup, you've also discarded your property rights. Where the line is, though, for example with regard to "placement"? Any lawyers want to chime in?
P.S. Or, I/we could wade through the other comments in this now much larger thread.
(note I'm only addressing the reason for asking the question. Evidence gathered from trash is useful too, and for evidence not on your private property, currently I believe no warrant is required (why should it be? It's no longer your private stuff, it's garbage headed for a public landfill.)
Vehicles are a bit different - but if the vehicle were parked in the street, and not in a private driveway, no trespass is required to plant a tracking device.
If this is now considered some kind of trespass, then the feds DO need ot re-evaluate the potential fallout from garbage-related evidence.
Vehicles on the other hand, even when they are on public property still belong to the owner and hence although no trespassing is required in planting the device (inside or outside the vehicle), the Feds would still be meddling with private property.
In this case, you could argue the garbage becomes public properly only after it is collected, and only by the collection services, which you would expect on regular basis. Thus you'd prevent FBI from just pick up your trash, saying "well, you were gonna give it up anyway".
Thoughts?
"It is important to be clear about what occurred in this case: The Government physically occupied private property for the purpose of obtaining information. We have no doubt that such a physical intrusion would have been considered a “search” within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment when it was adopted." (page 4 of the opinion, 6 of the pdf)
You could make that argument, but I'd disagree. Law enforcement can (should) only do what we the people allow.
cannot agree and would argue. same logic would apply to you while walking on public street -- just because you are in public, doesnt mean people can do whatever they want to do to you. same with your car being in the public.
if someone would want to go against government in a case where gov searched your trash can, one would have to (at least try)
- prove that trash can is your property because you bought it and have receipt or because you pay your property tax, which I may be right or wrong, would say what your obligation/rights towards the trash can. It would be interesting what outcome one would have with approaching your property manager and telling them you gonna use your own trash cans. In this example, it would be a clear to the judge that gov went through your own property, regardless if its your car, your boat or your trashcan. its yours, you bought it, you won it.
- prove to the judge/gov that your current or your property current agreement with utilization company clearly state who owns the trash/trashcan and at which point it is still your property or stops being yours. I would argue, and you could find hundreds of cases where people been convicted for life or put on chair because officials found bead body on the thrash yard that they said was your property []of course there is more into it such as dns checkup etc, if there is a poison tree fruit law applied, same way they wouldnt be able to use your dna found in the trashcan if they didnt have a right to go through it and even if found and i know it sounds crazy, it shouldnt be used as an evidence]. Therefore I would say you owe the trash even if its rotting somewhere on the trash yard. I dont know how far utilization rules/laws go, but one could try calling their utilization company and telling them "i want my trash back". wonder what outcome you will get if you threaten them to sue if they dont giver it back to you (the purpose of doing that would be what utilization company attorney would say).