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Comment by floren | Hacker News Reader

> It's a broader internet problem in general - "trending" algorithmic reinforcement stuff will push everyone towards the ONE TRUE BEST HOTTEST MOST POPULAR bbq/ramen/whatver place, when probably there's half a dozen other options within 10% of taste and quality, that some people very well could legitimately like better if they heard about them too.

Instagram doesn't help -- gotta get a shot of me eating noodles at the hot new place! There's a new ramen shop in downtown San Mateo that has a 30-person line outside at all times... I can't imagine it's that much better than the half-dozen other ramen places within 3 blocks, but by god it's new, and anyway would people be lining up like this if it wasn't good? I better get in line too...

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Back in my bar-tending days we always told the door staff (bouncers) to slow down when checking IDs early in the evening, just to get a line going. It works surprisingly well for drawing in more customers.

Totally tangential but follow-ups on that psychology:

* some people would walk in and see the still mostly-empty bar and get fed up that they waited in line for "nothing". This was surprisingly few people though.

* some people would ask and buy just about any explanation - "oh that guy is new and still learning", "we had someone get in on a fake ID and got a fine the other day so the guys are just being careful" or whatever and the people would be glad they got in early to get a good spot.

* sometimes we'd slow down the bar staff a bit too so that there was a line to buy drinks and people were happier that they had to wait in line again - confirming their bias that they must have gotten in at the start of the rush.

* some people were wise to the scam and everyone who called us on it thought it was great. They often offered to have their buddies come through the line a few times in exchange for a free drink.

* for some reason when you let your buddies, regulars and off-shift staff cut the line and get in quick, the rest of the folks seemed more willing to wait in the line.

tl; dr - group psychology of humans is wierd.

Utterly bizarre, yes. I think the psychological term for this is "social proof", and it applies to all sorts of weird things. For instance -- a person who is getting lots of flirty attention in public will tend to appear more attractive to others. Not because they are, but because seeing them get attention is social proof that they're worthy of attention.

Once I became an old fart, I started seeing these lines as a sign to move on. The question in my mind (at any age) was always "is the place worth waiting in line for?" But these days, I already know from years of experience that the answer is very likely "no".

Skipping the line has improved my nights out, though, because in looking for an alternative, I frequently find hidden gems and can enjoy them before the rest of the city discovers them.

> Once I became an old fart...

This has been a process for me. I still occasionally succumb to the silliness, but for the most part when I see a line, my reaction is, "meh, I'm hungry/thirsty now; let's go somewhere else". One thing that's telling is that some of the places I already know I really enjoy rarely have lines or are completely busy.

And absolutely agree that you often find hidden gems that way. A lack of a line will often just mean the business is too inexperienced or honest to use some of the psychological manipulation practices the GP talks about.

I recently went to a dessert shop in Palo Alto that seemed to be rate-limiting their orders so they could get a crowd formed. Once there were 2-3 people waiting, the line would invariably blossom to 5-10, and then stay high for a while. I can't be sure it was on purpose, but the thought definitely crossed my mind...

> and anyway would people be lining up like this if it wasn't good?

That’s why new restaurants hire people to line up outside.

I know which place you're talking about, and their stuff is actually sort of unique to me at least, in the sense that there's no broth in any of the ramen, but more of an oily sauce that you mix with the noodles. It's actually really amazing, and worth at least some wait to me. (and a Japanese opening a bay area branch tends to form lines).

Yeah must be Kajiken: https://maps.app.goo.gl/WvPQ115BfmSkJUGw8

I didn't want to buzz market the place but that's correct.

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