That we have to turn 180 degree south, meaning in this context abolish industrialisation, let some bilions starve and go back working the land with stone tools, or hunting and gathering?
Just as you say the only response is 180 degrees and abolish industry. Then what is your current 0 degrees heading, dumping waste right in the rivers, abolish the EPA to let industry profit more? Cut all safeguards on industry?
Also, environmentalism is at most a distant secondary theme in the manifesto. The primary reasons he gives for being anti-industrialization have nothing to do with preserving the environment.
Because it can be ecology, if done right.
Garbage has to be moved anyway. So if you move all the cans (alluminium) to one place and resmelt it, than this is definitely less ressource intense, than mining new alluminium and shipping it.
It has to be reduced drastically first (buying local, avoiding plastic packaging, composting food wastes separately (what a shame to send that to an incinerator)
Aluminium cans (their paints however is toxic), or glass bottles is the best case, but most of the time it's plastic bottles (for water, which is nonsensical, people should use tap water, or soft drinks, or juices, both unhealthy products)
We in germany don't.
Otherwise sure. Reuse, reduce, recycle.
And I think it is ok, if in the process of transitioning from not caring and throwing all in the bin - towards sustainability, that there will be also lots of stupid things done in the name of ecology. (I have seen so much waste and inefficency, by people who think they do good) But it is all experimenting, on what works and what doesn't. Socially and economically. I am actually optimistic, that we get towards a sustainable society eventually, but I don't think, I will live that long.
For polluting less, what sure works is to buy less, possess less things
To all the other replies about "this or that solution" is not really helping the environment. So what. Do something. Calling out how some things have failed as a seeming argument to give up and just pollute is a failure mind set. "Oh well, recycling didn't work as well as we thought, guess I'll just dump my hamburger wrapper in the ditch", is BS. Do people really not remember how polluted the highways used to be with trash, or rivers catching on fire from chemical dumping. We have made progress, and we should try to make more progress. Not be like "well EV's still create a lot of waste, guess I'll just go de-tune my Mustang and do some dragging this weekend". I can't believe how many people split hairs on some technology-X and use it as excuse to do nothing.
Everything happens “in the environment”, of course.
What I meant was that Ted Kaczynski’s main motivation for wanting to return to primitive agriculturalism was not a concern about industrialization damaging the environment. So he would not have cared about EVs or recycling as they are still happening in a technological society.
I did actually and I miss it.
But there is a reason, I am not raising my kids there.
But a fridge, hot showers, supermarket and if needed a hospital, are kind of useful.
If all that would be suddenly missing, things would get very bloddy, as hunting cannot sustain 7+ bio people.
So I am not wishing for a collaps, even though I do understand (and sometimes feel) the hate of the savage towards the concrete people.
> They’re keeping you occupied with your trivial grievances... so that you won’t think about what is really wrong with this ship ... In comparison to our real problem... your grievances are petty
The depicted perspective - determined insistence in "normal planning" in situations which are far from the conditions for "normal administration" - is one of the marks of these times in some areas... An Era of Myopia, of early stopping. Regardless of the nature of "going North or South" beyond the metaphor.
"Ship of Fools" should be considered an obligatory reading. (The paradox of recommending a text reiterating that "people are refractory on getting the point" is quite old and already has its answers.)
I think a movement that turns to murder as a means of gaining power will continue using murder even should it achieve its goals.
Someone in the past pointed out to me that the American Revolution is an exception to that. I don't disagree but so many other examples in history would seem to support my view.
Going back to the American revolution it was in essence a battle between the Tories and the Whigs with the rebels and a great deal of the British leadership being Whigs and making “the progress” of Americas founding inevitable.
---------- The professor elevated his nose and said sternly, “I don’t believe in violence. It’s immoral.”
“It’s unethical ever to use violence,” said the bosun.
“I’m terrified of violence,” said the lady passenger. --------------
They are literally talking about people like you in the story lmao. The ship is further going north and they know they are gonna drown if they don't have a violent revolution against the captain and throw him out of the ship(killing him) so that they can turn the ship around.
> "The point of the story appears to justify murder as a legitimate means to enact change."
Well what the hell do you do in this scenario(in the story) ?? Have a non-violence protest and risk losing lives ?? Or throw the captain off the ship and steer it south ?? Violence/Murder is 1000% justified and is the answer in this story's scenario.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - John F. Kennedy
The captain and his mates don't necessarily need killing, even though a revolt might be desirable. Even in plenty of actual ship mutinies, the rebels didn't outright kill the overthrown officers, only imprisoned or marooned them. And that was in the context of the death penalty hanging over them if they failed.
Violent revolutions in general have the small problem of bringing other violent psychopaths to power. Kaczynski might not mind, but I do. It was a well-known problem in actual pirate crews as well, and pirates actually had some interesting rules (including a fairly modern division of powers on board) to prevent the most violent psychos from taking over their ships and introduce some measure of consensus into their internal politics.
His caricature of "weaklings abhorring violence" does not address the succession problem at all, and even if the original officer crew was bad, another officer crew self-selected of willing murderers could conceivably be worse by being both professionally incompetent and ready to torture their opponents etc.
Not clear. Several legitimate interpretations of "going North" into current situations are factually «life-threatening».
The problem is that every one has different views of what the ship going north means. If you permit violence, then many groups will use it…don’t be surprised when some religious extremists use it because “they’re killing babies!”
It's also something politicians are well aware of (or at least have been reminded about recently).
We don't have to fantasize about violence. But even in our relatively safe, civil societies, we should be aware of it, and not categorically discard it as aboherent in all case.
My opinion is that violence is abhorrent in all cases except in self-defense when the recipient is a directly active threat to your life.
Of course, you can also argue that all government is a form of violence, the police are the only ones allowed by society to enact violence to protect property. If the state actions diverge from the population ideals enough, then to some extent the population is already at war with the state.
Arab spring protests too 2011
There are many examples actually, and there will be more and more with the current rate of environmental destruction. I can already forecast people blocking airports in the future if the governments don't anticipate and regulate drastically civil aviation