A peek into Japan's convenience stores | Hacker News Reader

A peek into Japan's convenience stores

one-from-nippon.ghost.io

105 pointskizunajp74 comments

Honestly these stores add a layer of functionality to Japanese life (along with vending machines) that increases QoL much beyond reasonable expectation. They have become a bit of a meme, but it's one thing I really miss from my brief time living there.

They add affordable right-around-the-corner convenience to every situation, and that you would have to be much more wealthy in another country to expect.

After living there and coming back I'm still trying to figure out how they get my money when I'm there.

In the US it is an obvious choice to not waste your money at 7-11. The gas is more expensive than Sheetz usually, their hotdog like products and terrible pizza have been sitting under a heat lamp for more than a day. And every product there is cheaper elsewhere. But 7 and I holding still is much better.

But it's not actually good and just seems like an extremely easy opportunity for the parent company in the US.

All convenience stores in the US are basically terrible except for a few who specialize in super clean bathrooms on road trips and a few north east places that capitalize on the fact that the region produces the best subs in the world. Really feels like 7 will have a Nintendo moment at some point and actually care about profits outside of their home country one day and just clean up.

7-11 in other countries are often owned by franchisee partner chains and groups. It's just that other countries seem to have better standards than the US.

7-11s in Japan, the UAE and in South East Asia are just much better maintained in general than the ones in the US. Often coupled is the fact that these countries often have strict enforcement, and if that's lacking, then a personal sense of responsibility from the owners to not stuff their customers.

I wonder why that is. In Japan it feels like they actually provide great value for what you're paying.

Japan's population is declining so at some point (very soon), Japanese companies in general will have to start paying more attention to their revenues outside Japan.

> Japan's population is declining so at some point (very soon), Japanese companies in general will have to start paying more attention to their revenues outside Japan.

I'm talking to you Sony.

The weird part is, they don't feel like they provide a good value. Family Mart is obviously better and if you can find a grocery store within walking distance of work, it's the obvious choice. But they are still good enough, where if there is any issue, you feel fine giving them your money.

There has to be something. Maybe America has just been abused by MBAs for so long.

This is from vague memory, but I believe all franchise convenience stores in Japan are run as family businesses. From what I recall, the company demands a strong personal commitment as a condition for getting the franchise. I suppose that's similar to Caterpillar or Chick-fil-A in the USA.

This is how it works if you want to run a 7-11 in china, which I believe is run by Japanese 7-11 corporate. Even though the Japanese 7-11 now owns the American one, I think they franchise differently in the states.

> All convenience stores in the US are basically terrible

I've noticed a recent trend of gas stations here in the US starting to have upscale convenience stores attached to them, with more upscale products, clean bathrooms, actual quality food, made to order sandwich counters, etc.

As for Japan, the only convenience store I went into in Tokyo, I got freaked out when all the employees stopped and greeted me in unison. I can see it was meant to be welcoming, but it made me very uncomfortable and I left.

That greeting is traditional in Japan regardless of whatever type of store, restaurant, hotel, anything you walk into.

I fully recognized it as my problem, not theirs. Just culture shock, really.

> I've noticed a recent trend of gas stations here in the US starting to have upscale convenience stores attached to them, with more upscale products, clean bathrooms, actual quality food, made to order sandwich counters, etc.

In rural areas, these serve the purpose of the general store of days of yore.

Consider https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g60082-d101743...

It's small grocery/hardware store with a gas station attached. Where the footprint permits, city folks appreciate being able to go one now that the corner stores are less common (and arguably less reputable) and they don't need to go all the way across town to get to a grocery store to buy some fresh fruit and some eggs.

The greetings are partly intended to prevent shoplifting. "We are aware you entered our store, we are watching you."

Well, it's fair to say the "unison" part is a Japanese thing...

The around the corner convenience has had a considerable impact on my QoL. Living in New Zealand previously I'd have to get into a car and drive somewhere to get anything done. It annoyed me but I didn't realise how much stress it was adding to my life until I moved to Tokyo. From where I live there are three convenience stores within 2-minutes walking distance. It comes with density which is 10x where I'm from.

The way they're always open is nice too. Nothing like being able to satisfy 3AM munchies with a 5-10m walk to the nearest conbini.

Seems it's the same with the 7-Eleven's and (I assume) FamilyMart's in Thailand as well.

I know in 7-Eleven in Thailand it's possible to get car insurance, buy airplane tickets, probably concert tickets, etc...

And also open 24 hours a day, 7 days per week.

I'm quite happy our village in Thailand recently got their own 7-Eleven. And it looks like excellent business for the people that started the franchise in our village. Always customers inside at day time and even at night quite often people buying stuff.

I like that I now have a shop nearby where I can buy milk, or a fresh cappuchino. Other mini marts in our village would not offer those products.

Even better in Taiwan. You get deliveries, pay bills, etc, along with much better food.

Plus, many 7-Eleven stores in Thailand close overnight or on weekends, especially if it's not a busy area and there is little customers at 3 in the morning.

Thailand has delivery and bill payment too.

In Thailand you generally cannot buy something at an online shop and come retrieve it from your local 7/11 while in Taiwan it's often a practical and cheaper delivery mechanism

I don't mean delivery of products from 7/11 (to save what 2 minutes of walking?)

In the Philippines, you can pay for your bills on any 7-11 store: electricity, water, phone, cable TV, internet, even pay for ship or plane tickets (because not many Filipinos own credit cards).

You were hellbanned years ago, so sadly a lot of your comments about life in the Philippines have been in vain. You might want to reach out to HN, maybe some sort of automation fucked up.

??? I'm not seeing a ban; comments are visible to me. Perhaps mixing up with someone else?

Enable showdead in your profile.

Very interesting article on the history. I also first saw these high quality convenience stores in Japan, then after having stayed in Taiwan for a while for a short while thought that the whole worlds 7-11s are like the ones in Taiwan only to be sorely disappointed everywhere I go.

I don't know how the ones Korea are, but for me personally Taiwan seems to be the gold standard of convenience stores. Yes, the average food is a little bit better in Japan, but Taiwan being the Trade capital it used to be has settled with having the best of everywhere.

While in the Japanese ones you get everything Japanese in Taiwan you get the best of everywhere. Award winning chocolate from south America. The best sweet choices from Japan, Germany and elsewhere. The best isotonic drinks from Japan. The best lemonade from the south of Taiwan.

Incidentally, Seven Eleven is originally an American convenience store chain. They got bought out by Itou Youkado, a Japanese supermarket chain, when Seven Eleven went bankrupt.

The history is very interesting here. As noted in the article, Ito Yokado's chairman set up a new company under Toshifumi Suzuki to create the Japanese 7-Eleven.

Southland Corporation, which owned 7-Eleven in America initially refused to even speak with them. Eventually it all worked out and 7-Eleven became a hit in Japan, while the fortunes of the company in America did not fare so well.

In 1991, when Southland faced bankruptcy, Ito Yokado invested $430mn to take over the company and renamed it to 7-Eleven Inc. How the tables turn..

There is a lot of detail on Wikipedia if you find this sort of thing interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Eleven#History

Edit: 430bn → 430mn

$430 million?

Big Gulps huh? It's always interesting to see just how awesome 7-11s are in other countries and why those improvements aren't brought back to the U.S. ones.

Twenty years ago, Korean 7-11s seemed more full-service than Japanese. I don't know if that's still the case.

really missing the papaya milk from the 7/11 Taiwan, couldn't find it in 7/11 in South Korea or Japan

I would love to know how Japanese convenience stores can be stocked - even in out of the way places - with fresh, nutritious-ish food that isn't super expensive.

I feel like there must be a huge and hidden (to me) supply chain to make this happen and that's the real story, have never seen this explained anywhere.

Most countries you just get "shelf stables", which implies this "invisible thing" is missing. The stores themselves are just the tip of the spear and I want to see what's behind them.

Not specific to Japan (rather, the US) but this book might be a good read if you're into that sort of stuff. I imagine there are more similarities than differences:

https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Life-Groceries-American-Superm...

Reality is a bit sad though - those convenience stories barely survive on tiny margins, owners pay a lot to franchises, must be open as franchise says, pay is terrible. Google would find some articles in English about that.

E.g. https://archive.is/www.nytimes.com/2021/04/30/business/japan...

There is an upside to that: since pay is so low, kombinis began to hire foreign workers. That in turn made has made Japanese society more accepting than in decades past of the idea of foreigners speaking Japanese (prior to this, the superstition was strong that Japanese was unique and mysterious, and foreigners could never really grok it). Now any foreigner in Japan benefits.

On my previous post (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36110833#36123339) many people encouraged me to write about Japan's convenience stores, so here it is!

Thank you HN! I had a LOT of fun writing this!

Just a note, it was paywalled for me until I opened it in incognito mode.

When I visited Japan I drove around Shikoku (smallest of the main islands) and was surprised to find a FamilyMart in a small rural town. 24x7 open, just as well stocked as the ones in Tokyo. Really interesting to learn about its history!

Thank you so much! Even for a fairly obsessive Japanese culture otaku, there was so much to learn in this article. Please keep them coming.

Thank you so much for this comment. It means a lot!

Were you able to read both parts?

Yes. It is really nice to see some interesting research instead of the usual "Japan is a homogeneous collectivist society that blablabla".

Anyone been to Buc-ee's? Think gas station convenience store but huge.

https://buc-ees.com/locations/

Never heard of it, but this one line on their site convinced me to visit one the next time I am in the United States: "Cleanest RestRooms in America!"

This is one of their major selling points and part of their strategy with locations positioned on the highways between major cities, to the point that they even have jokey billboard ads along the lines of "Only 300 miles to Buc-ee's, you can hold it".

I miss these places so much. The nikuman and famichiki were my go-to breakfast along with a hot can of coffee and the occasional pack of cigs (where they had all of the nicotine levels labeled). Konbini have some of the few publically accessible trashcans in Japan as well.

Are they joking or is it really so common to spend nights at the office that convenience stores actually sell underwear?!

Things are slowly changing now but pulling an all-nighter in the office is fairly common and used to be a mark (scar?) of achievement and loyalty to the company.

I don't think Japanese companies keep workers around anymore than American ones, so the "hero" masochism signaling is misplaced.

They do sell underwear and other essentials. There are lots of reasons people might need them, not just all-nighters at offices. Especially since lots of convenience stores aren't near office buildings.

People also get blackout drunk on the street fairly often (at least, in certain areas like Shinjuku for example). That sort of thing can lead to a need for a quick replacement pair…

yes

They do! I accidentally went on a side trip while in Japan and forgot to pack enough shirts and underwear. No problem, with 7-11 nearby!

I'm sure it gets the job done but how was the quality?

Pretty good. I wouldn’t buy clothes from there by choice regularly but it’s definitely not disposable level quality. Maybe about on par with Uniqlo for basics?

Family Marts have a shelf of individually packed socks/underwear/T-shirts/leggings etc in many styles and colours. Cheap and good quality too.

Ran out of socks a few times when I was there. Top up was a 10s walk from the hotel. :)

Japan has an unhealthy workaholic culture similar to America.

It's worth noting that in Japan, there are also vending machines that sell used women's underwear.

It's also worth noting that those vending machines are only located in sex shops.

> there are also vending machines that sell used women's underwear.

While the plural is technically true, it is a little disingenuous. There are very few, probably not enough to overflow the fingers of both hands (or even, maybe one hand) in the entirety of Japan.

Not joking at all. There are even vending machines to sell you a fresh pair of briefs and a change of tie. I've seen them in Tokyo around major train stations and hotel districts.

Underwear is indeed sold but the reason being spending nights at the office is probably mostly joking, hours can get long but not Elon long.

The underwear is for all the "Spend the night at xxx" situations you can probably imagine anywhere in the world (pun intended).

You don’t even need a special situation. If I’m at the convini for food, but also happen to need socks/shirt/underwear, and it’s right there, why make a separate trip somewhere else to buy it?

Something as simple as getting caught in rain and needing an emergency change of wet socks meant these convienence stores were lifesaving. Truly something worth emulating in other countries.

I never needed to buy a pair of convenience store underwear. But it's comforting to know that it's an option.

Japanese convenience stores are the real life equivalent of video game save points.

A long-term Thailand resident American friend of mine calls 7-11 The Temple. In either metaphor, it's impressive how much of this experience seems to be associated with the door: upbeat jingle, sigh of relief, flood of air conditioning, plethora of choice in restorative beverages, altered lighting, altered standard of cleanliness, mental zone-out, expectation of slow browse with punctuating transaction ritual.

Considering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doorway_effect and the recent popularization of WFH, I wonder if interior design for next-gen houses and apartments will have a "save door" or "restore room", and if so whether it will grow out of and/or replace the kitchen or bedroom or lounge or some combination thereof (as kitchens, appliance collections and cooking skills shrink) and whether it will be proximal to the front door or some corner nook, or if a view and thus connectivity to outside spaces would kill it. Feels like it almost has to be a fully enclosed space, like a walk-in wardrobe.

Probably a retail design psychologist could weigh in.

Its the frequency of combini that makes them so good. They're everywhere, and you're never further than a few minutes from one. They sell some really good quality food at a very reasonable price (especially their onigiri). The variety of drinks is also pretty awesome. It makes the experience of living in a mega city like Tokyo much more pleaseant and easy.

> The Large Scale Store Act of 1973

> Now, the small businesses could slow down the large businesses by 4-5 years or even completely freeze them out.

Sounds like the law of unintended consequences caught up with them.

If not for this law, they would have only had to contend with a few large shopping centers. Instead they now have to deal with one (much better) convenience store on practically every street!

Suffering the indignity of having goods and services coming to them (like roman patrons?), rather than they having to go to forage for goods and services (like roman clientele?)...

Here in the US, while there are plenty of bad convenience stores, I know plenty larger chain stores, especially between cities (buck-ee's in texas!) where I have eaten some of the best tacos, pizza and fried chicken. Having fastfood chains in a convenience store is also common and the bigger ones always have sitting spots. Not to mention love's, flying j's and other truck stops have even more stuff and the clealiness is an issue typically in smaller stores.

I don't get the whole japan's grass is greener sentiment but my observation is that consumers in the US have exactly what they want with this respect.

I'm curious, how hard is it to pay in cash or to get service as anything but a light skinned person in a japan convenience store?

> how hard is it to pay in cash or to get service as anything but a light skinned person in a japan convenience store?

There is close to zero overt racism of the sort you're referring to.

In almost any Japanese customer service situation involving big companies, the smiles and friendly demeanor are mostly a facade for a very transactional relationship.

Hey, I am honestly asking because what I have seen on posts here on HN imply otherwise.

Very Interesting to know! The convenience store is such a big part of the culture in Japan.

I really enjoyed that! If the author learned so much more perhaps a part 3 is in order?!

Yeah but guess what many don’t have? Any kind of pain killers. I went at like 3AM because of a headache and literally none to be found.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com