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Comment by wldcordeiro | Hacker News Reader

> We just caved (again) entirely to the transit unions in the last contract negotiation. We have subway lines & trains wired up for 1 man operation but run them staffed with 2 due to union work rules.

I don't think this is a good point to make when we've literally had several disastrous derailments thanks to poor regulations and rules around safety and train companies attacking unions. The transit unions are absolutely right to demand 2 workers for fail safes, "efficiency" isn't the be-all-end-all goal especially when you're talking about trains full of people who could die in an accident.

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The 2 are not redundant. One just does the extremely difficult job of closing the doors which can in no way be done by the driver due to the immense mental burden it would require.

Subways all over the world operate with just one employee and surprisingly don’t just derail and kill millions. Maybe take your FUD elsewhere.

Singapore MRT actually operates with zero drivers!

As does Nuremberg U3!

One line in Paris, 2 in Toulouse, Lyon, it’s even more funny that it was built in the 1991 without drivers, truely futuristic.

even Budapest has an autonomous line

There are many.

List: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_driver-less_train_syst...

Two lines in Paris, soon to be six.

They are not redundant and fail safe. One sits at the front & controls the driving. The other sits in the middle of train, 5 cars back & controls doors.

Nothing about having the two of them creates redundancy.

The train is not moving or being driven when the doors need to open and close. Why can't one person do it? I am sure there is an interlock, but this makes the tasks sequential, so the doors must be closed before taking off.

Yes, that's my point. One person very much can do it. There are train lines that have their signals & stations setup for this, and the trains prepared for this mode of operations. The MTA keeps caving to the unions so that the trains remain staffed with 2.

What's more although the train operator (driver) can open and close doors, the conductor (doorman) is not certified to operate trains and thus provides no emergency redundancy except perhaps in terms of crowd control.

Most subways around the world operate with a single driver and are at least as safe. The two worker rule to appease the union is one of the major drivers of cost disease in operating subways in NYC.

There are also an increasing number of subways out there that operate with zero drivers.

> thanks to poor regulation

Comparing different systems overseen by different agencies with different regulations, rules and conditions without an objective data doesn’t seem that productive.

also comparing subways with intercity freight trains is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison in the first place.

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