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Comment by belter | Hacker News Reader

"Conditionally automated driving: Mercedes-Benz DRIVE PILOT further expands U.S. availability to the country’s" - https://media.mercedes-benz.com/article/81a29ac5-4d02-4b58-b...

”Mercedes-Benz DRIVE PILOT is the world's only SAE Level 3 system with internationally valid type approval. It builds on a very robust foundation, setting new industry standards. DRIVE PILOT uses a highly sophisticated vehicle architecture based on redundancy with a multitude of sensors enabling comfortable and safe conditionally automated driving. The certification by the authorities in California and in Nevada once again confirms that redundancy is the safe and thus the right approach.”

"...Mercedes-Benz is focusing on SAE Level 3 conditionally automated driving with the ultimate goal of driving at speeds of up to 80 mph (130 km/h) in its final iteration..."

"Mercedes-Benz S-Class DRIVE PILOT Sensors Details" - https://youtu.be/9m-VS55w9HA

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>"Mercedes-Benz S-Class DRIVE PILOT Sensors Details" - https://youtu.be/9m-VS55w9HA

- LiDAR

- Radar

- Cameras

- Ultrasonic sensor

- Road moisture sensor

Curious how this collection of sensor compares with Tesla and also with run of the mill cars with ACC / lane keeping.

https://youtu.be/BFdWsJs6z4c

I'm aware of Elon's opinion: "LiDAR is lame. LiDAR is lame. Lame. Losers use LiDAR. LiDAR is expensive."

I can't stomach watching a video that starts out like that.

Do you use LiDAR when you drive?

No, but at the same time Boeings and Airbuses don't flap their wings and birds don't use jet engines to fly.

Just because nature and millions of years of evolution have solved a problem in a way that looks simple on the surface, doesn't mean the same thing can be copied with current tech to solve the same problem.

Elon's "but humans drive with only use two eyes therefore we can do it with cameras" is the most moronic argument ever and it saddens me when I hear others here parrot it.

Our two eyes may be enough to drive, but our eyes can move in their sockets, our heads can move around and parallax for depth perception, our retinas have miles better dynamic range than any commercial sensor that Tesla is using, but most importantly, our brains are orders of magnitude ore intelligent at reasoning with new or unknown situations than current self driving tech which is just basic pattern matching in comparison.

It's moronic because it's motivated reasoning.

Do you use camera when you drive?

I use 2

How much processing power do you use to process the input and control the car? You've got more of it in your head than a whatever Tesla puts in their cars. Your cameras are also better.

It seems a bit suboptimal to place LiDAR in the front and low. More like a lane following kinda setup.

It's also worth pointing out that this is an extremely limited system:

> On suitable freeway sections and where there is high traffic density, DRIVE PILOT can offer to take over the dynamic driving task, up to speeds of 40 mph.

Basically, this will follow the car in front of you in slow freeway traffic. It won't navigate, it won't even change lanes. It won't work (and it's not clear to me how it disengages) when traffic speeds up.

That's not useless. There's a reasonable argument that this is the product the market wants. But the "Germans beat Tesla" framing here is really quite spun. Autonomy and capability aren't the same thing.

You forgot the best "feature": It allows you to take your hands off the wheel and your eyes off the road.

This is significant as it means MB takes on liability and will give you sufficient time (i think 10s in the European version) to take over.

In the world of corporate liability this is huge even if it isn't a technical achievement by itself.

Only people who don’t understand problem domain think it’s not a technical achievement.

I'll give you 2:1 odds that before this reaches market (looks like end of the year for deliveries per the article) Tesla will duplicate the stunt and lift the driver monitoring requirements in similar situations.

(Edit: two replies here playing gotcha games with prior FSD announcements. But I'm serious: Tesla can do what this Mercedes does already, essentially perfectly, and has been for the two years I've operated the vehicle. The cost to them of duplicating this stunt is near zero. I'll bet you anything they do it.)

The Tesla, who claimed they’re full self driving next year, for more than half a decade now?

Cool, let’s wait.

I think it shows how little you understand the problem, to call it a “stunt”.

They claimed in 2018 that in 2019 you will be able to let your Tesla work for you as a Robo-Taxi and make 300.000,- a year. Why would they still wait?

Why did Elon Musk wait so long to say the videos showing "him" saying "We will have full self driving in 201x" are deep fakes?

> I'll give you 2:1 odds that before this reaches market (looks like end of the year for deliveries per the article) Tesla will duplicate the stunt and lift the driver monitoring requirements in similar situations.

I'll put $100 to the charity of your choice.

are u saying current tesla CAN"T do this?

40mph with a lead vehicle in daytime on a highway?

TODAY, my model3 (on FSD beta) can go 40-80mph, without lead vehicle in night anywhere, AND take turns, watch lights, watch for pedestrians, monitor who came first in stop sign...etc etc... TODAY. Not 2 years from now.

where do i signup?

No, I'm saying Tesla won't sell an L3+ product approved for a CA autonomous vehicle deployment permit before Mercedes does.

There are lots of level 2 systems where you can take your hands of the wheel. That not the definition of level 3.

The interesting thing is it's roughly the same system my 2022 Mercedes has, except it requires my hands on the wheel (and does not disengage over 40mph). I mean, this is just adaptive cruise with lane keeping.

Really the big thing here is Mercedes is saying it's good enough (under 40mph) that the driver doesn't have to pay attention at all.

„Beating“ depends on the perspective. German engineering and marketing approaches are most certainly more conservative, which is important in certain technological advancements such as driving assistance / self-driving.

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