Except part of their 'value prop' is "We have this giant trove of human created content, and AI companies need to start paying us to utilize it when training their models".
Another user said they tried the data dump GDPR request and the comments included deleted comments but only the edited version, so I guess this can be verified at least.
That could have changed, sure, but nothing indicates that is the case.
You could also go the GDPR route and request all your data be deleted, if you are subject to that. They would be forced to comply with that request.
but if you overwrite first with garbage then delete that's what shows up in the dump
Do you think they are going to go through each of your comments individually to determine if it contains personal info or not? That requires actual time and effort, and as an individual user you or your comments are nowhere even remotely in the vicinity of important enough for that.
It’s far easier for them to take the loss and delete wholesale.
Do they do this? I don’t know, I haven’t done it. But it certainly could be argued that by them not doing this, they are not fully complying with the requirements of a GDPR deletion request.
It is 100% not the user’s responsibility to keep track of this information. That is explicitly a requirement of the provider and it is fully on them to ensure that a deletion request deletes all the personal data. If they didn’t tag it properly and can’t ensure that, then that is their problem to solve not yours.
Their value proposition is also not a single user’s data. It’s the entirety of the data set. One user’s data is nearly worthless, certainly not worth enough to have a human review it. Which was my point.
There's nothing stopping AI companies from just using those instead of paying Reddit $50 million to scrape all of them using the API. It would also be 10x-100x quicker to do that rather than hammer their API for the comments (the API sucks for mass data retrieval)
The point of shredding comments isn’t to hurt the companies scraping the data (although that might be a nice side effect). Ultimately it’s to hurt Reddit.
Reddit always felt like a place to take from since it got lots of people by being centralized, but not really a place to contribute to unless you were contributing to the group think aspect of the community.
Communities specifically set up for answering questions or R&D were in my opinion the only valuable communities. Figuring out things or learning from the huge number of users was helpful, but it was never a fun place to just talk about any of my interests.
This is a fairly classic case of "you aren't the customer, you're the product", but that isn't the only way capitalism works.
This is capitalism and greed and disdain for the user.
I don't know if that will kill or materially damage reddit, but that combo kills plenty of regular businesses. (Salient difference is probably that user != customer, as with many internet businesses.)
So no, the problem really is greed, and the extreme resistance to regulation in the US.
> You retain any ownership rights you have in Your Content, but you grant Reddit the following license to use that Content:
> When Your Content is created with or submitted to the Services, you grant us a worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, transferable, and sublicensable license to use, copy, modify, adapt, prepare derivative works of, distribute, store, perform, and display Your Content and any name, username, voice, or likeness provided in connection with Your Content in all media formats and channels now known or later developed anywhere in the world. This license includes the right for us to make Your Content available for syndication, broadcast, distribution, or publication by other companies, organizations, or individuals who partner with Reddit. You also agree that we may remove metadata associated with Your Content, and you irrevocably waive any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to Your Content.
There are obviously ways to defeat this in analysis, but it does make Reddit's job slightly harder if they want to leverage that data. It would also probably be interesting to also just edit them and not delete them in some cases in some randomized way, which would make it even harder to reliably tease out good comments from noise.
Your comments, including here in HN, are probably already covered by a scheme like that where you give the site operator an unrestricted license to use them. You can remove the association to your identity via GDPR, but to take down the content itself you’d need to go through the justice system.
I’m sure Reddit keeps all versions as well. But I think it would be impractical to restore to the correct version at scale unless they want to manually review to find the “right” version to restore.
I think if they got a specific subpoena for me, they could find my comments with a manual investigation, but I expect that will never happen as there’s no reason for anyone to do that.
I just want to remove my content from Reddit.com and make it harder if they decide to undelete or otherwise not respect my decision.
I’m surprised Reddit still allows edit and undelete and expect them to remove the functionality soon.
If they retain versioning history I'm sure it would be easy to identify a mass edit and revert all of those edits from the user. If it wasn't easy, for some reason, it would probably be easy to revert all edits after, say, 2 days of posting.
Given that everything posted to Reddit becomes the property of Reddit (okay, perpetually licensed to Reddit), I don't know that much legally could be done about this. Unless they restored stuff posted while under-age, or PII, maybe.
But sure, things could be done to make this more difficult. It's probably not worthwhile on Reddit's part to do anything to stop this, just as it hasn't been too worthwhile for websites to evade ad blockers. The number of people who mass delete is just too small to matter.
If I worked at Reddit and wanted to do something about it though (and was a programmer), I'd add an option under individual deleted comments for viewers to click to view the comment (and any versions). And possibly add an option for viewers to restore a version entirely. This would save helpful comments, at least until some jerk decided to automate the process and restore everything. So maybe the complete restoration is a bad idea.
That could still backfire. Users may be very unhappy that their unedited comments are accessible forever. This may drive them away from commenting and participating in general.
The goal of mass-deleters is to drive down engagement. If Reddit makes the entire edit history of each comment accessible, then mass deleters could flood that history with bogus, AI-generated crap. Although it may still be possible to determine which edit was the last real one, the effort to do so goes way up, and engagement goes down as a result.
They could restore all comments a month after controversy/blackout events from about a month before such events.
That would probably restore the majority as most people are deleting/overwriting their comments as a reaction to or as a part of these events.
It’s much more likely they just disallow editing and deleting.
Garbage in, garbage out after all.