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Comment by gdy | Hacker News Reader

"Ukrainian children are separated from their families"

Really? Would you leave an orphan in the war zone or move them to a safe place? Calling that a 'genocide' is cynical distortion and serves only Ukrainian propaganda.

"Adult Ukrainians have reportedly also been deported "

"Reportedly"?

"and made to live as Russians"

What does it even mean? Drinking vodka and playing balalaika?

"There's plenty of talk in the Russian media that all Ukrainians believe Ukrainian is a valid ethnicity should be killed."

"Plenty"? I don't know what you are talking about but just go to Ukrainian segment of Facebook, which allowed hate speech against Russians, and tons of genocidal fantasies.

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> Would you leave an orphan in the war zone or move them to a safe place?

No, I would reunite them with their families. Intentionally refusing to do so and leaving them with Russian families to raise as Russians is genocide. You don't get to whitewash that.

This is not some people on Facebook; the UN has condemned it, the ICC issued arrest warrants, it's widely documented. Look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russia... for some sources.

Same with the other stuff. Your rhetoric doesn't change the facts.

> Your rhetoric doesn't change the facts.

Once you understand someone is delusional, there is no point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_genocide_of_Ukr...

7 countries voted that it is, and prominent historians at ivy league institutions (you know those one's people badly want to get into so they can learn from the worlds top experts) have said it definitely is.

As far as I'm concerned the matter is pretty settled.

The person you're talking to doesn't have any desire at all in understanding you, nor do they have any desire to create the best argument against themselves and respond to that.

"7 countries voted that it is"

That's 7 out 193 countries. Hmm, I wonder why.

By the way, the Ukraine itself didn't recognize the obvious genocide of Armenians by Turkey during WW1.[0] Countries can be very flexible when recognizing or not recognizing something as genocide is in their interest.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide#Internationa...

I'm sure you understand why. Ukraine is in a vulnerable position right now and needs all the allies it can get. Alienating Turkey would be foolish. And considering the Armenian genocide happened a long time ago, it's not exactly worth it to bring this up now. Turkey, especially under Erdogan, is definitely a problematic country, but not one that either Ukraine or NATO can afford to alienate right now. Current issues take precedence over the atrocities of the past.

"I'm sure you understand why. Ukraine is in a vulnerable position right now"

Seriously? The Ukraine had over 30 years of independence for that.

What does that have to do with anything? Is this some kind of purity test for you? During their 30 years of independence, Ukraine has struggled with corruption, authoritarianism, two revolutions against authoritarianism, and a Russian invasion. They've had bigger fish to fry at home than to cast judgement on neighbouring countries.

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide_recognition a total of 34 countries have recognised the Armenian genocide as genocide. That's not a lot. Even the UK and half of Scandinavia haven't. That Ukraine hasn't means nothing, it doesn't mean they don't consider it genocide, and it certainly doesn't mean they're okay with genocide. You're being overly anal about this issue.

Thank you for standing against lies and russian propaganda which doesn’t care about facts nor truth.

Their insulting comment is not based on anything real just as their arguments.

It serves as a form of mockery or dismissiveness towards you. It was used also to belittle and undermine the seriousness of the discussion. Typical for russian propaganda.

>Once you understand someone is delusional, there is no point.

it’s not a delusion. it’s typical russian propaganda tactics. explained here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36270224

Delusion:

  A false belief or judgment about external reality, held despite 
  incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, occurring especially
  in mental conditions.

I don't doubt the person actually thinks what they say they think. I don't think the experience of spreading propaganda involves self awareness that one is spreading propaganda. I think the nature of propaganda is that it is self propagating without a structure that consciously propagates it.

Delusion in the form of denial is a natural response to grief. "This entity that I am apart of is doing something heinously evil" would naturally cause grief. I experienced grief in regards to Iraq and Afghanistan because I believed my country was doing something evil.

Denial is the first stage of grief, and I think we are seeing denial in the form of delusion, delusion supported by propaganda.

And some were reunited even the wiki article you linked to says so.

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