France legalizes remote camera and microphone activation in smartphones
francetvinfo.fr
francetvinfo.fr
The way it works in France is there's two chambers of parliament, the senate and the Assemblée nationale (that I translate to "the parliament"). Unless the law changes something in the constitution, the senate is just there to advise the parliament. If they'd voted no, it wouldn't have mattered.
It is up to the parliament to vote laws into effect
But the neolib right, the far-right and the conservative right compose >60% of the parliament so there's no need to hold your horses too much. For the retirement law, they didn't have the support of the far-right. Since I don't think the far-right is going to suddenly find themselves privacy lovers I think we can safely assume it'll go through
Bills are either "law proposals", meaning they are introduced by parliament members, or "law project", introduced by the government.
France has some of the best welfare in the world and from what I hear from my French friends they're not opposed to paying for it, unlike more neoliberal countries where tax is a swear word.
If French workers allow Macron to jack the retirement age up, the price surely will be felt by their own children.
Government reports forecasted a possible deficit that was in the ranges of €10bn in 10+ years, which is tiny, along with other predictions that put it lower and even predicted profits. Uncertainty's equal across any of them
Many alternatives were brought up by either the opposition and various economists; reducing pensions, increasing dues, pointing out new/other sources of income, ... many of them coming from right-wing political commentators. It was a trainwreck across the board. Then the government politely declined all suggestions without much in the way of arguments and pushed the reform over the parliament
You don't get all the major unions, including the ones that are basically carpets, to call for a strike for a pension reform if it's legitimate. Nor do you get 93% of the working population to disagree with you. We have pension reforms every 5 years or so and while they usually cause some forms of strikes, we never get 3+million people in the streets for something like that. If you were french you'd be pissed off. But you're not, so you just followed the story through the prism of foreign news and they often can't afford to go super in-depth
I'll take only one idea from above: I imagine the same people would go on the same streets if their pensions would be reduced, and by the way, even today you can retire earlier with a reduced pension - so I totally miss this point. Same for increasing dues - one can simply put more money aside any time.
You can check the government report on which everything in this pension reform is based on
https://www.lexpress.fr/economie/retraites-ce-qu-il-faut-ret...
Article fails to mention covid killing off a bunch of old people but the timing of that helped too.
We don't do capitalized pensions aka "putting money aside" and we don't want to. We pay for the currently retired with the dues of those currently working in real time
Some of the same people would show up in the streets for reduced pensions or increased dues if it came down to a deficit (which isn't the case right now), but nothing like May
>magical thinking.
Why do you feel the need to contribute to topics you know nothing about
The data is right there: the system was not in a deficit that warranted any drastic action. You're stuck in a swiss "medicine should taste bad" mentality. You fetishized centrism to such a level you're mistaking it for wisdom
Then the parliament can whip out a motion of non-confidence, which, if signed by 50% of the parliament, removes the law and fires the government.
Stress on the "signed by 50% of the parliament" => If a congressman doesn't sign it, it's counted as a no. They almost never go through. Not to mention that a fair number of congressmen can be against a law, but also against firing the government. So by definition they always have that advantage on these votes too
Because of course it will
ps: there has been cases in France of people being sent to prison because of harassment on social networks though
Or am I oversimplifying. Please say so.
Police has real problems dealing with these types cause there are so many of them together and they quickly scurry back in to their impenetrable tower blocks.
[0]: https://www.cipdr.gouv.fr/prevenir-la-delinquance/
[1]: https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/actualites/communiques/insecur...
It's a perpetual "state of emergency" for a decade+ now
If criminals can have limitless access to new technologies, but LE gets no new ways of finding criminals using new technologies, we might as well stop with LE all together. Just let criminals do whatever they want without anyone trying to stop them. That's going to be awesome!
Edit: The down votes were expected, but next to clicking that button I'd love an actual response of how people think things will turn out of criminals get the power of technology and LE gets nothing.
Until then sorry, not sorry. You are not wasting my freedoms and resources on monitoring the populace to ensure the criminals stay in power.
I would be perfectly happy with defunding police to provide more resources to people who actually care for addicts and homeless, trying to rehabilitate them. That's for the petty crime. I would also accept less policemen in the streets if it meant policemen with actual tech knowledge investigating while collar crime.
Also, legalize all the drugs (with proper regulation) and lay off everyone who wastes my money on stopping their proliferation. Instead start taking care of people who use them (and everybody else, for that matter). Hint: it's usually the socioeconomic background that drives people to use.
(I am EU based.)
In this case, it's with a court order, but the real issue is that it mandates having backdoors, something pretty much everyone with a lick of understanding of what it entails is strongly against.
I'm seeing this response in many replies to mine and I feel like this is because people don't understand how laws like this actually work. Especially because people in the US like to apply their mistrust of LE to European LE.
The Netherlands already has a law in place allowing police to hack citizens in case of specific crimes, comparable to this law in France. This does not require companies to create back doors, but allows LE to remotely enter devices of suspects if deemed necessary. This needs to be confirmed by a judge and therefore isn't applied very often, only in specific cases where there's no other option.
Fighting cyber crime without these laws becomes nearly impossible, because often a perpetrator is very good at covering their tracks and offensive hacking is a necessity to find a perpetrator. HN then has the tendency to say "for now", implying that this will soon be applied to petty thieves and the general populace, but this law doesn't allow that, has many safeguards and therefore that doesn't happen.
Institutional safeguards are the most miserable line of defense. The moment there's political will to make them go away, that happens instantly. Look at what happened to a formerly democratic country such as Turkey.
I'm genuinely curious what kind of cyber crime does LE think it's going to effectively combat? And to what end?
LE barely solves basic crimes where a citizen can say "This person here, they stole my X, it has tracking and I know right where they are", why on earth would we give you more "toys" to invade our privacy and still not do your damn jobs.
In it's current state (arguably since inception) LE exists to protect the rich and powerful, the common citizen would be stupid (and/or horribly brainwashed) to give LE more tools at this current time.
Remove qualified immunity, make it your job to actually serve and protect and maybe we can talk.
On the other hand, I do understand the government need to control the "e-space" so to speak; and I'm now lumping in here every form of internet control too. If a government ignores to control a popular information channel like the internet (or the radio, television, etc), powers that seek to replace the government will take root there and coordinate weakening them. So if they don't control it, others will, and that's not necessarily good for the people either. So, it's only natural that after a new form of communication is created, that regulation will come soon after that extends government control over it.
Outlawing technology doesnt work, because they will break laws, use open source code and not trust closed source code. For example, if you outlaw encrypted apps like Signal, they will simply use open source tools like PGP, which you cannot take away. However, the average non-technical citizen will suffer serious hacks because they actually obey the law and won't use the secure technology.
Likewise, in this case a serious criminal will use a phone with no microphone/camera or put it in a faraday bag, if they even use a phone at all at sensitive times. Meanwhile, the average citizen needs to constantly feel a chilling sense of being watched literally the same as in 1984.
However, there's a huge difference between (a) setting up means for spying on 100% of the people and (b) developing operational excellence in LE to be able to follow individual cases.
Usually the path of (a) is followed because of mental laziness of politicians, assumed cost-saving, lobbying by some companies who want to sell their LE Big Data product and BS megalomania. Citizens have to stand up and fight against getting criminalized.
> setting up means for spying on 100% of the people
These means have existed since for ever. Phone taps have been around for as long as phones have existed, way before they became smart. Letters can be opened, everything can be intercepted. Even "pizzino".
It still is. LE barely has enough capacity to fight every criminal, let alone watch 100% of everything everyone does online. And if you look at how tough a time social media are having at content moderation it seems like tools to automate this well don't exist yet. Just look at stories like this:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2013/10/15/n...
2) between geolocation tracking, sting rays, ALPRs, phone/internet/email/web history providers subpoenas, doorbell cameras, face recognition, FISA/national security mass surveillance, drones, etc. one is supposed to believe that LE does not have the technological tools to do their job?
> geolocation tracking
Only real available ways are hardly useful and easy to avoid.
> sting rays
Really only useful if you already know something will happen or where (about) a suspect is.
> phone/internet/email/web history providers subpoenas
Take lots of time and are often barely useful for European LE due to the international character of the internet and many more reasons.
> doorbell cameras
Contrary to popular belief hardly any more useful than old school security cams and very often much less useful.
> face recognition
Mostly illegal for LE use in Europe: https://edpb.europa.eu/system/files/2022-05/edpb-guidelines_...
> national security mass surveillance
In most of Europe this does not (legally) exist and therefore will never be admissible in court.
> drones
Barely useful for catching criminals.
So no, LE, especially in Europe, does not have an incredible wealth of privacy intruding tools that can be applied willy nilly. But I live in a country where a cop needs to report removing their gun from their holster and every bullet is accounted for. It's a very different world from the US.
A law like this, in my country, would only be used in special circumstances for big time criminals, because the amount of work to actually apply it and the paperwork before that can actually happen is too big to apply in other cases. Maybe that's why I have less distrust towards laws like this, because I've seen how hard it is to actually apply them.
Mandated backdoors on the phones sold here - worse security for everyone except the criminals who will import their phones from abroad.
Hackers for hire like NSO group being paid by tax money for dveloping exploits - will be abused by everyone who can pay.
Government developing their own exploits - incredibly expensive and risky.
That all assumes criminals and LE are separate entities but in reality criminals will probably get access to those powers in some capacity, be it trough a breach, rouge employee or a corrupt leadership structure. On top of that, even in EU there are countries like Slovakia that were and after next elections likely will be ruled by parties with close connections to mafia.
But not the ability to compromise the tech everyone else uses.
Crime rates in countries similar to France are absurdly low compared to any other time in history. And that's ignoring the fact that the definition of "criminal" is also expanding very quickly. Why is that? We're also putting much fewer people in prison, so it's not like law enforcement is just catching more.
Crime that happens exclusively online is crime that law enforcement is the least apt to deal with, but not because of technology. Before the Internet, police very rarely caught scammers, and that's the bread and butter of online crime. The best line of defense against that is in the individual.
If you think all this is justified by terrorism then I beg to differ. Acts of terrorism in France are a response against the overwhelming power projection of NATO. It's the poor man's way of waging war. But what does it really accomplish? Not much at all, other than provide an excuse for authoritarian measures.
And finally, law enforcement doesn't need any technology to bag the obvious corruption, money laundering and fiscal evasion going on among the rich and connected. Those crimes are far more damaging as they eat away at the fabric of society. You don't need technology to deal with those however, you'd just need to be allowed to do something by the same masters that vote for this.
A microphone is much, much harder to block. It will hear through tape just fine. For a normal user who just wants privacy and doesn't want to pry open an expensive waterproof phone, what recourse do I have?
Other than that I think the pinephone and librem5 are the only phones I'm aware of that actually have hardware microphone switches.
The Librem is ancient hardware for a top tier price and has a 20 week delivery time. The pinephone... Well yeah it's usable though the switches are under the back panel and can't be moved by hand, you need a pen, tweezer or toothpick or something as far as I've heard.
I need to have a phone that can protect against this, because it doesn't matter if it's a state doing it with a warrant or a talented hacker - either case is unacceptable to me.
So far a FairPhone running DivestOS and only trusted software via F-Droid is the best solution I have found. GrapheneOS on a Pixel is nice, but I don't want Google hardware if I'm not trusting their software.
(Thankfully MacBooks do at least physically disconnect the microphones if you close the lid.)
And of course it doesn't have to be on the display, given they already have a cutout island in the display where they could place such a thing.
What is the mechanism for this? It seems like this would be a software system.
Why don't they just use Telegram / Whatsapp / Signal? Sure maybe the NSA can get in but afaik they don't bother with mid scale European cocaine importers.
Also, there are tools like Pegasus that pretty much do all the heavy lifting in hacking.
Is S30+ or KaiOS (previously FirefoxOS) which Nokia uses really that much more secure?
Also, usability becomes a thing here. Most people don't even use their phone for calls anymore. Not being able to do the other stuff defeats the purpose.
The most basic phones don't have KaiOS.
There are / have been hacks using SMS that didn't even require the user to do anything, but then again they required Android iOS to carry out the hack.
The smaller the attack surface the better (for the criminal).
> Also, usability becomes a thing here. Most people don't even use their phone for calls anymore. Not being able to do the other stuff defeats the purpose.
Afaik criminals that were using these special phone systems like SkyECC just wanted to make calls and send messages, they'll use something else for TikTok or whatever.
EDIT: SkyECC didn't have microphone enabled, it was just able to send messages
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/01/sim-card-...
So, "simple is safe" is just not really a thing. SafER perhaps, but also so much less useful that it defeats the purpose of using one IMO.
I think it would be better to use a secure android ROM. Like GrapheneOS or CalyxOS.
It was very obvious that the ruling was politically motivated and they treated the climate activists like terrorists. What's alarming is that our governments seem to get more and more repressive.