Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin | Hacker News Reader

Intelligence Officials Say U.S. Has Retrieved Craft of Non-Human Origin

thedebrief.org

154 pointsswalsh144 comments

Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors. Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are “of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures,” he said.

Extraordinary claims -- extraordinary evidence.

Show us some of these fragments, please. You know, the ones with the special "vehicle morphologies", the "unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures" and stuff.

Otherwise, there's nothing to talk about here. And nothing fundamentally different from these claims than in all those glaring headlines we've been glancing past, at the top of few certain supermarket tabloids that don't need to be named -- for half a century now.

    "Secret Government Base Has Wreckage of Alien Craft ..."

Its hard to imagine so many people could have known about this for so long, yet it remained secret. I expect you could keep something like an assassination secret since everyone who knows about it is probably in some way complicit. Wouldn't be the case here.

Also of course the energy required to get to Earth from somewhere else, for an organism that used any kind of "vehicle" we could recognize as such, would be enormous.

But, good to stay open-minded.

Worth remembering that if in 2010 you claimed that the US government was spying on everyone via everything, you'd be called a conspiracy-nut, we now know that it was true, what so many people were claiming before that.

I agree that probably there needs to be more evidence than "trust me, I've done this for a long time" in order for us to assert there is extra-terrestrial intelligence. But, I wouldn't believe it's false just based on "it couldn't have been hidden for this long".

This isn't just "some guy claiming whatever".

Not only is there an enormous backstory attached that people willfully choose to remain ignorant to, all kinds of people holding active positions in the highest relevant places are corroborating this.

Even more importantly perhaps, part of the story is a decades-long disinformation program conducted against the US population and government itself, by rouge elements in the intelligence community.

For one thing your assumption here just isn't true. You might have been called that in major media outlets -- but within the tech community it had been widely acknowledged (since the late 90s or so) that such surveillance was most likely happening. And precursors of such technology were referenced in congressional hearings back in the 70s. This was all discussed openly and there was nothing conspiratorial about the topic at all.

For another -- just because certain things in the past that have been derided as conpiracy-fodder and then turned out to be true (MKULTRA, say) doesn't mean that some other thing X (that you happen to find nifty to believe in at the moment) just might be true, or will also be validated as such some day.

In short -- the presence "conspiracy-nut" stigma about something has no bearing on its scientific validity whatsoever. Either for or against.

But, I wouldn't believe it's false just based on "it couldn't have been hidden for this long".

No - one wisely judges them to be most likely false based on (1) lack of physical evidence, (2) Occam's Razor. Not because of what you're saying (which doesn't have any bearing on the topic at all).

You might have been called that in major media outlets -- but within the tech community it had been widely acknowledged (since the late 90s or so) that such surveillance was most likely happening.

You realize how easily this point can be applied to UFO discourse, right?

Because as everyone knows the tech community has been acknowledging the probable existence of UFOs since the 90s, right?

> might have been called that in major media outlets -- but within the tech community it had been widely acknowledged...

There is a huge UAP community of believers. I don't see why a community belief makes it more legitimate. It's speculation until you have hard evidence, for the NSA thing that evidence was a whistleblower, what's the difference here??

Well, did it remain secret? Seems like this has been openly recognized for quite awhile, but propaganda forces at play made it seems like you're a nutjob to believe it.

It wasn't secret. It was covered in disinformation so you would dismiss it, as you have, until it was officially confirmed, like it seems to be now. Previous government insiders have come forward with the same story, but have been dismissed, and the whole topic seen as crazy, because the carefully crafted disinformation counterintelligence campaign was working as intended.

That, along with black special access programs (like described in the article), covered with classified programs, is how you keep it, not secret, but "partially occluded."

The question is not: how? But: why? The answer is because they were afraid and in denial because it challenged their authority, and they wanted us to be in the same fear and denial, because then they can maintain "control".

Maybe now it's shifted. And that's good. Not because everybody gets to know there's aliens, but because the governing corporate superstructure is choosing to no longer continue to act like scared little idiots. And I think that will be better for all of us.

That is blatant ignorance.

More specifically, you are entirely ignoring the context here.

> Other intelligence officials, both active and retired, with knowledge of these programs through their work in various agencies, have independently provided similar, corroborating information, both on and off the record.

> The whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, 36, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan, is a veteran of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO). He served as the reconnaissance office’s representative to the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force from 2019-2021. From late 2021 to July 2022, he was the NGA’s co-lead for UAP analysis and its representative to the task force.

That's not evidence. That's hearsay.

Fragments, please. Or photos, or at least reasonably credible scientific reports describing these fragments. Or at least something resembling, you know -- first-hand evidence. Otherwise there's nothing to talk about here.

Can't believe I have to explain this on HN.

No, it's expert testimony. I can't believe I have to explain that on HN...

By someone with no scientific credentials whatsoever -- and who presents no evidence.

I mean sure -- he's a great guy, and has served his country and all. But still.

Why on earth would the whistleblower have to be a scientist here? That's utter nonsense.

This guy has worked exactly where it is necessary in order to get hold of the claimed information, in a faculty with the necessary clearances.

Again, you are putting the cart before the horse by demanding "evidence" of some mystical quality, while entirely ignoring the information that is actually presented.

This guy has worked exactly where it is necessary in order to get hold of the claimed information, in a faculty with the necessary clearances.

In a world of agencies famously riddled with incompetence, whose people have not only have been shown to be liars, time and time again -- but guess what: Their very purpose is to lie.

That's why we need something more to seek our teeth into than some whistleblower who says he's seen reports about such and such.

He could simply be lying, pushing a propaganda message of the state. Why would you without evidence believe he is being truthful whatsoever?

There is geopolitical advantage to making the world think you have advanced weapons tech, or that it exists and has to be found somewhere.

I do not "believe" anything if I can help it.

Here, the guy has supporting testimony from a whole array of decorated people in important positions. The context checks out. To assume he was "lying" is what is preposterous.

You frame the events as if some noname-guy came up in a vacuum claiming incredible stuff. That is not at all what is happening. You not knowing about all that and not even recognizing that this circumstance is affecting your judgement is remarkable.

Given the history of this subject, it’s not unreasonable to assume that a mundane explanation like “he’s lying” is more likely than the extraordinary explanation of a worldwide decades-long conspiracy theory.

I mean, I hope it’s true. Aliens would be cool. But we’ve been here before.

I'm sorry, are you under the impression that high level government agents don't lie?

That he isn't no-name makes the lie more plausible of course. We're talking hypothetical and possibilities here, that you're completely rejecting the possibility of a government lie is pretty silly.

>supporting testimony from a whole array of decorated people in important positions

C'mon man lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destr...

I don't think you understand in the slightest what is being said here.

If you assume, this guy was lying on behalf of the government you might want to try to rationalize that, because it doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

That idea about the US wanting to impress other nations with bogus UFO tech is ridiculously stupid. You completely underestimate other countries for instance.

You're largely attacking the person here, instead of their argument.

I think "lying on behalf of the government" happens like...constantly. (See: war in ukraine) I don't really think this guy is lying, but ruling it out is...well, "ridiculously stupid."

It doesn't have to be rationalized. There's a littany of reasons we could invent that could justify lying about UFOs. This government has many foolish people in positions of power. Those people in, in theory, can do foolish things that don't make any sense whatsoever.

And the claim we're up against is literally aliens. You gotta bring receipts on that, and war medals aren't enough.

I'm highly interested to see this develop, and I haven't chosen sides yet. I would fucking LOVE to see what the world does if they get smacked in the face with proof of aliens. I am giddy with excitement.

But I'm not taking this guy's word for it, yet.

Witness testimony is evidence. You don't have to believe him, but it is specious to reject a witness's testimony primarily on the grounds that it is not evidence.

He hasn't seen the stuff (or even photos of the stuff) himself - he's only spoken to people who claim they have, or who claim to know of it.

Why are you, then, hallucinating that he's some kind of "witness"?

Well, he is an expert on the subject matter, so....like, what are you an expert on? He he he :)

"Hearsay" is a derogatory term used to disparage evidence. It is entirely unscientific, as evidence is not ignored solely based on the messenger. You have to thoroughly evaluate the context, regardless of your personal preconceptions.

The guy has done a seven hour interview with Ross Coulthart, that is due to come out this week. He is reported to have such photos, documents, etc.

This story is bigger than Watergate by orders of magnitude. You playing ignorant here is ridiculous.

None of that constitutes actual evidence. Let's see some artifacts.

Evidence in real life is accumulative, not "holy grail style", like in the movies. You build a case step by step, systematically establishing a context. Here you already missed all the prior foundational work.

On top of it you pretend to be able to judge the validity of "artifacts". That is mere posturing.

You miss the slightly more important point of having been lied to your entire life by the government about fundamental topics, which is beginning to unravel here.

Evidence in real life is accumulative,

Right -- and so far there's an accumulation of precisely zero.

On top of it you pretend to be able to judge the validity of "artifacts".

I defer largely to (legitimate) experts, actually. But as of yet: there are no artifacts to evaluate.

Does the account nradov belong to you as well?

You not knowing about the already existing evidence is no proof of its inexistence.

What "legitimate experts" exactly are you referring to and where?

The whistleblower here is talking, among other important things, about a secret US military program attempting to reverse engineer non-human artifacts. Your demands here are out of context and nonsensical.

I might as well be the Queen of Romania as far as you're concerned.

And hey, you can believe whatever you want about this stuff. I really don't care. I do find most of the line of discussion here to be quite silly, though.

To be fair, though, the claim here is "intact vehicles". That's as holy grail as it gets.

Let’s see one, then.

Exactly. Sure, let's have people come forward and show us what they got, or what they've seen.

Until then -- all I'm saying is: C'mon, people -- hold your horses.

We're scientists here, after all.

This guy is doing exactly that, coming forward and showing what he's got.

What you are is unclear to me.

This guy (David Charles Grusch) has come forward. He is not yet showing us anything. I eagerly await him showing some actual artifacts, or at least authenticated documents and images of such artifacts. Until then this is a big nothingburger.

The mere circumstance of a person with his career going on record with such claims is a great deal and clearly indicative of something really unusual happening.

Ironically this is what many people thought when they saw Colin Powell go in front of the UN and do his song and dance about Iraq's WMD program. Which surely must have been a clear and present danger to the world at large, for this guy to go on record and stake his whole reputation and legacy on it.

And yet, when you actually listened to what the guy was saying ...

Indeed, you should actually listen to what this whistleblower is saying rather than relying solely on credentials.

I don't know though, whether Colin Powell risked his career in any way, it doesn't look like it.

You are weirdly not providing any reasoned arguments whatsoever, only illogical slander. Why is that?

The point is that just because someone with a chest full of medals says something, that doesn't make it so. You have to look into the evidence for the thing itself.

I think it's clear we're talking past each other by this point. Again, you can fit this news story into your head however you like.

Watergate had tapes, reams of documents - and riveting testimony under penalty of perjury. When we have that on the table in regard to this matter -- we'll have something to talk about.

As it stands now -- we have nothing.

The events here are clearly indicative of something unusually important happening.

Your attempts to relativize that with nonsensical "Let's put the cart before the horse and our heads in the sand"-arguments are misleading.

> The events here are clearly indicative of something unusually important happening.

Yes, probably some kind of rather involved psychological/propaganda operation to jump-start the public's faith in technology as the solution to manifestly worsening conditions, or to restore faith in institutions whose credibility is in tatters.

This story is bigger than Watergate by orders of magnitude, if it's true.

There have been "Retired intelligence officer says he has evidence of aliens" stories floating in fringe media for decades, and all of them have turned out to be cranks. Bob Lazar has been working this beat since 1989; where's the evidence?

Maybe eventually one of these times it'll all be true, but skepticism -- extreme skepticism -- should absolutely be the default position here.

What is "extreme skepticism" other than ignorance?

A real skeptic actually looks at the data and isn't content simply by ignoring it.

Here, you simply imply this guy was a "crank". Maybe you should take a closer look first?

Great, where's the data? Right, he doesn't have any, and is asking for other people to come forward with the data.

HN has effectively been taken over by a bunch of middle aged losers desperate to realize some sci fi dreams they had as children. You can also see it in both the ridiculous yet arrogantly confident predictions of AI utopias or dystopias that are basically just something they ripped out of a book or movie.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nzkq/stanford-professor-ga...

There, is a Stanford Professor good enough for you?

This is also referenced in the article: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/237309319_On_Events...

Thanks for the links, the interview was a good read! I guess if the findings are just like little chunks of metal with some weird isotopes I'm not very convinced that they're like alien technology or anything.

The original article seems to be implying that there's like some extraordinary clear evidence of a vehicle or something, which would be much more shocking.

The whistleblower claims, crash retrieval programs exist which are reported by very believable people in the government to have craft of non-human origin.

Your depiction of the story is clearly misleading. This here is a mere step in the direction of uncovering such "material evidence" as you would like to be presented right now, as if reality ever worked that way.

My comment was merely a reaction to the thread above, not the original article.

lisasays: this is rubbish because there's no first-hand evidence e.g. of the vehicle fragments of the Debrief article

phyallow: here's first-hand evidence [link to the vice article]

me: this is just weird bits of rock, which isn't obviously a vehicle fragment, and so this article isn't really as much of a proper response to lisasays' comment as it seems.

(1) Different guy, different story

(2) By my reading, the stuff he's talking about doesn't constitute (or even suggest) dispositive evidence of alien craft. Nor this guy even claiming that they are. All he's saying basically, is "Here's some fragments / MRI scans we don't understand, let's explore further".

(3) Even so, this stuff is many orders of magnitude weaker than the claims in the original article (literally "intact craft of alien origin"). So there's not even an analogy to be made here.

re (1), that guy (Dr. Garry Nolan) is quoted in the OP article, although upon reading the OP article again, it doesn't seem that the guy has first-hand knowledge of the supposed evidence, so it doesn't mean much.

Although I guess for (2), his quote in the OP article does imply that he believes that these could be alien craft.

(2) - Mmm, no, he doesn't say that. He just mutters a bit of innuendo about "Human civilization being utterly transformed by ...", without any explanation of what he's driving at specifically.

Weird. Definitely less reason to take this guy seriously. And really irresponsible and stupid of Vox to put an out of context quote like that out there, as if it says anything useful about anything.

Nope, not good enough. Stanford Professor Garry Nolan only has some secondhand stories and odd bits of metal that could have come from anywhere. No real evidence, no chain of custody, no provenance.

Also it seems like even the whistleblower does not have first-hand evidence:

"Grusch also said he has not seen photos of the alleged craft himself, but has spoken extensively with other intelligence officials who have." from https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/military-whistleblowe-us...

Why would he have such "first hand evidence"? That makes no sense at all.

Do you suppose, he could have carted one of the vehicles out the facilitie or something?

Sorry, I meant to say that he has not seen the evidence first-hand, which is pretty important IMO.

I hate to be pedantic, b--actually, that's not true; I enjoy it plenty well.

Hearsay is a TYPE of evidence, albeit not a particularly reliable type of evidence. But you are correct, it is hearsay, and in fact, its second-hand hearsay.

But more to Loquebantur's point here (I think this was his point), this IS fundamentally different than similar claims that came before. You have one guy from the government making these sorts of claims (that's not the different part, this next part is), and you have 2 other decorated government officials and colleagues willing to, not only speaking highly of Grusch's integrity, but CORROBORATING HIS EXACT CLAIMS, and even going on to provide a further anecdotes. That's not what normally happens. Also, it is fundamentally different for this reason as well: All of this information and whatever Grusch learned was provided to congress, behind closed door to those with the clearance to hear it. As far as I am aware of, this level of type of information has never been provided to congress before.

This not insignificant; Congress has the the power to subpoena information, compel testimony, and ultimately verify or debunk these claims and information. And ultimately, if they deem it pertinent to do so, they have the autonomy to inform the American public.

Now, not to totally invalidate your other point: I do think it is important to keep in mind here that Grusch himself has not seen any direct or hard evidence of 'materials of exotic origin'. He is merely saying that several high-level individuals have confided in him what is presumably first hand experiences, which, as you know, is second-hand hearsay.

So this leaves open the possibility that the individuals who were confiding in Grusch, were fooling themselves, were in some way deceived, or perhaps even wanting to fool Grusch himself.

I think it's great that there's corroborating witnesses. But, you know, shows us the evidence. Show us you got something. Show us you're not all just talk. What are you afraid of? Show us.

Of course evidence would be much better (though I'm not sure what kind of evidence I would actually trust). But if the story is true, it makes sense that we're not seeing anything: given that they're talking about an arms race with other countries, the US would not want to show any details that adversaries might not already know. Since the US government looked over everything they wouldn't allow actual evidence to be released.

I'm not saying this is true or false, but if it's true, we'd expect no actual evidence.

So lack of evidence it itself -- a form of evidence?

I'm not sure what to say to that.

How did you get that from what I wrote?

I presume you haven't seen any news lately. /s

It's known as the Appeal to Ignorance fallacy in intro to critical thinking classes.

I totally agree. You say you’ve been covering up some big project for 70 years? Okay, where are the results? Otherwise your just fronting, desperate to cover your ignorance for what you don’t understand and which challenges your authority.

This is the governing superstructure’s chance to step up. I hope it takes it

Jonathan Grey says secrets have been necessary. “Though a tough nut to crack, potential technological advancements may be gleaned from non-human intelligence/UAP retrievals by any sufficiently advanced nation and then used to wage asymmetrical warfare, so, therefore, some secrecy must remain,” he says. “However, it is no longer necessary to continue to deny that these advanced technologies derived from non-human intelligence exist at all or to deny that these technologies have landed, crashed, or fallen into the hands of human beings.”

- Jonathan Grey, the intelligence officer specializing in UAP analysis at the National Air and Space Intelligence Center, is speaking publicly for the first time, identified here under the identity he uses inside the agency.

Also: https://web.archive.org/web/20230605130331/https://thedebrie...

Being able to acknowledge they exist has to be more beneficial to our country. Open communication is essential to science. The more scientists with clearences we can get in, and cracking the nut, the better off the US will be.

Does it? There was a study like 10 years ago saying more than 50% of adults believe in angels. I don't think they could comprehend this (if true).

I'm guessing those people are not scientists.

What if it's two sides of the same thing? May be closer than you think

Look, I'm as skeptical as anyone, but please watch your rebuttal.

When has there ever been a senior official with a significant reputation coming out like this?

That in itself is 'extraordinary' evidence.

Is this proof that life is out there? No, but if you're not updating your priors, you're not rational.

The identity of the "whistleblower" doesn't change the fact that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that this has been claimed to have happened in multiple countries over multiple decades and yet there is not a single picture that doesn't look like it was taken with a potato. There is not a single sample of material. None of the craft has ever fallen into civilian hands. All of the involved governments have been able to keep it a secret.

As I'm sure all of you are aware, all of this is statistically improbable to the point that it can likely be safely considered to be untrue. If we're considering probabilities, I think it's far more likely that the US Government is running some kind of psychological operation.

Nothing of what you claim there is true to begin with.

People encountering this topic have a weird tendency to take their own lack of knowledge as "proof" for inexistence of anything worthwhile.

You cannot claim to be an "expert"(in itself a term only referring to human knowledge) in something without actually having checked with other experts in the field.

Oh good so there is material evidence of this occurring. Eagerly awaiting your post with links to said evidence.

Your claim was

> There is not a single sample of material.

There are multiple. Maybe look here for starters:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nzkq/stanford-professor-ga...

That’s not true, and that’s the wrong position to take now: that’s just denying the evidence.

That’s okay to do, some people are going to do that for a while and need time. But if you stick to denying, just own it, don’t pretend it’s the truth or reality.

For the curious: There’s lots of evidence in photo and video form, and there are tiny fragments seemingly with advanced metallurgy. These are things that have already made it into the public. Check out the YouTube channel: Unidentified.

What’s missing is “official confirmation”, because the government/corporate aspect is afraid of what they don’t understand and can’t control, so they have to deny it. It challenges their authority.

If this insider becomes or helps beget official confirmation: that would be cool. It would mean we actually live in a powerful state that isn’t afraid of reality, however humbling that may be.

Can you provide any link to good photos or videos evidences ? I've never heard of any advanced metallurgy. Do you have any usefull web ressource for me to know more ?

Haha, I watched the video the other day on that channel, but I can't remember which video it was, sorry!

Alright I found two that are related to what I mean (that actually shows the fragments):

- https://youtu.be/zNZHTlRFD6E?t=1415

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9xDsOkrPRo

These ones are connected to Linda Moulton Howe.

Here's another one with I guess different fragments related to Gary Nolan (where he just talks with Lex Friedman): https://youtu.be/EBsUIj_UBBE?t=50

>Unironically posting ancient aliens. First video, guy finds small piece of metal with a metal detector. He's a geology professor, but doesn't go into the geology at all, just

"I've never seen anything like this in all my years" ∴ alien metallurgy maybe.

Second video: Are there desirable properties to an alloy of bismuth and magnesium? The 'expert metallurgist from New Jersey' didn't say, just that they didn't know of any way to make it. All that really proves is the limits of the knowledge of one metallurgist from New Jersey. There are any numbers of ways that metal might condensate in layers over time, all unlikely to naturally occur, but any far more likely than ancient aliens.

Third video: Guy literally admits that this is all pure speculation and that no definitive conclusions can be drawn from these random pieces of metal and that none of them are rule out all possibilities besides the existence of visitors with manufacturing technology beyond our comprehension.

That's exactly what's happening here. This is guaranteed to be a psy op. And the fact that all of this is happening now amid these insanely accelerating advancements in AI tech is not a coincidence. Soon (if not already) they will be able to generate an entire backstory for an "advanced alien race", coupled with AI generated imagery, video, audio and whatever else with barely any effort.

Okay, for what purpose?

So basically, your rebuttal is that it's not this crazy thing, it's this other very crazy thing.

Ok...

Former Canadian Minister of Defense made a ton of alien claims while he was alive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer#Extraterrestrial_...

And "even" HN commenters ressort to stupid rhetoric tricks when out of arguments.

The existence of outlandish sounding but unsubtantiated claims remotely similar to the one on topic here is not indicative of anything.

I am not making any arguments at all. I am not sure what to make of this. I am just providing an answer to this question:

> When has there ever been a senior official with a significant reputation coming out like this?

A former Canadian Minister of Defense did.

What irks me about all this is that it remained a "secret" quite well guarded for so long (and he characterizes as a global phenomenon, so gigantic surface area for public scrutiny/whistle-blowing)[1], but then I remember the PRISM program/Snowden revelations and I don't know what to think. Perhaps it's also valid to consider that it might be a top secret US aircraft that he judged to be of alien origin and no one in the military tried to correct it, for obvious reasons.

[1] - “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”

But it wasn't secret. The narrative has been out there for ages but covered in disinformation so you can't see it properly. The disinformation caused people to see it as ridiculous, as was intended, so they ignored previous government whistleblowers with the same story.

Yup. There was information about the NSA's Echelon program floating around for decades before Snowden. Check out the Public Disclosures section of this Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

Despite multiple whistleblowers dating back to 1972, no one took it seriously until the Snowden leaks confirmed it without any doubt. For forty years this information remained below the surface.

Whether it's true or not, there are some predictable consequences to a mainstream "proof of aliens" scenario:

- for national governments, the choice to accept revealing the existence of aliens now would be an implied endorsement of the current world order. e.g. everything has changed, we need to suspend new changes until we know more. Looks bad for elections.

- it is a reason to dispense with rules and limits on sovereign powers that were created without this key ontological knowledge. Aliens are the ultimate existential emergency, states will do what they want "for humanity." Your privileges are a from a world that no longer exists, etc.

- even if it's a hoax, elevating aliens to official news seizes back lost official narrative control, which twitter had made untenable this weekend.

- Worst case scenario, it would imply a mandate from "above" to do whatever the coordinating body behind this revelation might have planned.

Whether this alien thing is true or not, any mainstream acceptance of an alien visitation can be interpreted a signal for co-ordination around a narrative that would very likely be in service to these objectives, imo.

Nah man, if that were true, governments & corporate would have revealed the existence of aliens when they first knew about them.

Rather than playing an elaborate counterintelligence cover game, pretending they have advanced projects reverse engineering, creating technology, a secret space program, to give the illusion of control and knowledge about some thing they don’t understand, they can’t reproduce, and they have no control over.

You’re right, the aliens are above Earth governments, and corporations. But that’s why they can’t reveal them: why we gonna listen to them if there’s something better out there?

The creation of a new priest class? unlikely.

Official disclosure at this point just means the corporate government superstructure has become comfortable with vulnerability and they’re OK that humanity goes on this path together to adjust to this new reality, rather than thinking they have to lie, be afraid, and deny everything to keep it all super secret, just to protect their authority.

The wiggle is that maybe they are only “comfortable with vulnerability” now that they think they can keep us under total control after our sheepishness during the pandemic. Hopefully not, but let’s see how this plays out, and if this even becomes or helps beget official disclosure.

If this story goes into more mainstream outlets, it's pretty clear it's just an attention distraction they can turn on and off like a tap to keep people watching the news confused. The only interesting question (or trade) to me is what this alien narrative is a pretext for.

What I am 100% sure of is that if aliens existed, they could have chosen to reveal themselves at any time, there is no concievable civilization that could consider our current order worthy of endorsement, and that to human power, power is everything and the only thing. You can't imagine how some of them suffer without it.

So even if aliens existed and the artifacts were real, if this story gets into mainstream rotation, there is zero chance it is anything other than a diversion tactic for another significant politcal event.

Or maybe you've just been conditioned to think it's a distraction, as part of the disinfo campaign in order to dismiss it? A way to protect from the very leaks that may be happening now! Ha ha ha :)

Nah man, it's true because now they have the capacity to generate all of this fake garbage at the press of a button. They could never have pulled it off before in a convincing way. If the entire planet is going to be unified under a single authority that takes its orders from "aliens", it best be convincing. That's the direction we're headed.

If that's as far as you can get with it, I understand. But what if the "psyop" was you being conditioned to interpret it like that? Ha ha ha :)

And what if the psyop is you being conditioned to condition me into believing that I'm being conditioned into interpreting it like that?

You can talk in circles all you like, but at the end of the day basic rationality rules. Look at the playing field, look at what's at stake, look at the current state of affairs in the world, look at who has to gain what, and it's all rather obvious. If you can't see through that then it's on you.

Some thoughts:

> It has since been reorganized and expanded into the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office to include investigations of objects operating underwater.

This is a piece of important information. They probably have proof that there are interesting objects moving undersea or out of sea.

> His on-the-record statements were all “cleared for open publication” on April 4 and 6, 2023, in documents provided to us.

This basically means Mr. Grusch is not alone. He was probably "ordered" by his faction to go public. And the fact that the material gets cleared means that probably the ruling military faction approves it, but mainstream media, mostly serving other factions, refused to go public with the material. In fact, chief of CIA visited Beijing last month. Did they discuss anything about this?

> a number of potential sources do not trust the leadership of the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office established by Congress.”

Who is this leadership? I suspect this is a civilian who knows nothing about this, thus not trusted.

> The existence of complex historical programs involving the coordinated retrieval and study of exotic materials, dating back to the early 20th century, should no longer remain a secret

God if this is true, I cannot imagine the span of the whole project globally. Was Tunguska the very first one?

Companion article on how they have fact-checked all this:

https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founde...

So no fact-checking was done about their actual claims, only about who the people behind those claims actually are?

While the content sounds good, the context is off. Here's the top domains of the first page of Google results when you Google this officer's name:

debrief.org, nysun.com, dailystar.co.uk, dailymail.co.uk, the-sun.com, brobible.com, ar15.com, dailywire.com, m4carbine.net

These are the same sites I would expect to see blurry pictures of Big Foot. Unless we're assuming that the Department of Defense is capable of suppressing every major news outlet?

The authors of the article are Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal, the people who broke off the news about the secret US program to study UFOs on the New York Times back in 2017 and 2018.

The other journalist that has interviewed the whistleblower is Ross Coulthart, the award-winning investigative journalist who published interviews with Nat Kobitz, former US Navy Science and Tech Director, who claimed to have knowledge of a program to reverse-engineer crashed UFOs.

The people who are breaking these news can't be dismissed easily.

So New York Times, where Ralph worked for 45 years, was not interested in this story? They also mention the Washington Post did not run it, claiming they "needed to publish quickly" without explaining why they couldn't wait for WaPo to authenticate it.

It's not just not the mainstream media onto it. Even the dedicated UFO gatekeepers haven't touched it yet. I think that indicates that: it's factional, and it's a new faction.

Paraphrasing this guy: "The story is bigger than Snowden. It's just breaking and mainstream media have had a month lead on it, been approached, but refused. It should have people writing to their representatives to investigate Gursch's allegations. People should be outraged at the criminal activity that has gone on outside of oversight. Media is complicit so far."

https://youtu.be/rQjbFZT9_EM?t=1370

On one hand, I thought the same initially, that all the sources seem like typical tabloids.

On the other hand, it may be that more 'trustworthy' organisations are doing some level of due diligence before republishing this.

If nothing surfaces in the larger outlets in the next 24-48 hours it probably is just the first thing.

Insane, but totally believable "a[n eighty year] Cold War for recovered and exploited physical material – a competition with near-peer adversaries over the years to identify UAP crashes/landings and retrieve the material for exploitation/reverse engineering to garner asymmetric national defense advantages."

How many of these crashes are there? Did these aliens fly halfway across a galaxy just to crash in our neck of the woods? Are they flying around in cheap junk? Or are they just terrible pilots? All those special vehicle morphologies and unique atomic arrangements just to crash land. Odd.

We humans have crashed plenty of advanced craft on Mars. Does it mean it is not possible for us to travel long distances?

If you define the veracity of such claims as facetious, consider the early experiments of Enrique Inglesias Fermi when he invented microwaves. No one disregards the book GWB was reading to that class on 9/11/21 and no one would because it was on camera. Please take care with your words as many here look up to you guys for explanations to the larger UCF topic. Thanks!

Maybe it's an alien weather ship :P

It's possible that the crafts are not designed for the earth environment and that it is different enough from expected environments that there's some ways for these to crash. For example, they may not be able to handle earth storms, longer term exposure to microbe-containing rain or random bird collisions.

Interesting word choice: 'non-human' vs 'extra-terrestrial'

This is in parts to remove the baggage that comes with the word, but also to be more precise in what is described here: https://i.redd.it/sm2tecjyuqf91.png

That's incredibly thorough. I guess I've not given it sufficient thought before.

Very calculated wording. Gives them a form of outs if the population realizes that it's actually just the US government generating fake "alien" stories to control the masses using sophisticated AI/AGI technology, they can then claim "actually we always knew it was advanced AI beings".

yeah, probably hollow-earthers.

I can believe there would be a lot of competition between the different armed services and even private corporations in keeping this kind of information to themselves, to allow them to use the information for their own private gain. For example, the Air Force would want it kept to themselves for "their" future technology plans and wouldn't want the Navy to get it for "their" plans. And the same for individuals and corporations who might benefit from the study of such information, objects, etc.

So while it may seem nearly impossible to keep this information secret for decades, I believe it's possible, with enough threatening and potential for personal gain. For me, Snowden completely debunked "it's not possible to keep that big of a secret for so long".

This was never a secret tho. Define secret. It's not "unknown", in this case, is it? That's part of the plan. The machinery of secrecy: disinformation. Poison the well with so much crazy balderdash, that you end up hiding in plain sight.

This narrative has been out for decades, and previous government insiders have come forward, but it's always carefully constructed with many "outs", so that people can dismiss it. So it's not secret, people have known about this, and you may have been told about this, but you would have dismissed it as crazy. That's part of the plan. That's how you keep a secret, you get the people to keep it for you. By not hiding it, just making it seem ridiculous.

Of course the details, real and high quality photos/videos or aliens, and actual physical craft you can go and touch, are still hidden. But through the vanguard of disinformation you can help protect all that by making any approach to the topic seem ridiculous. Then even if anyone leaks from that special access project area, you are aided by the fact that people view the whole topic through the lens of the ridiculousness you have carefully created.

A comprehensive counterintelligence strategy. Is how you do it. I guess.

This reads like X-File season 13. I hope some of it is true. Real life is too boring amd frustrating.

I think that's part of why such stories get traction. Real life is boring. People want something more. When something comes along, they hope it's true, and motivated reasoning comes in.

This same mechanism can explain AI hope.

Yeah I really hope this is real. I won't be able to participate for sure but the mere recognition of existence of such projects is going to impact global society profoundly.

When these clearly superior beings that have advanced far beyond us come knocking, I am sure the first thing we should ask is - whether they accept Jesus as their lord and savior, as it seems very important to us.

How we should handle our first encounters has been asked before in an article titled:

"Kill Them And Eat Them" (opinion) by Jules Siegel, illustrated by Doug Taylor in

Playboy Magazine August 1977 vol.24, no.8

IIRC the article argues that:

- every modern civilization has been a disaster for less-modern ones,

- the only group that have survived encounters with modern civilization are the Yanomami Indians of the Amazon who have avoided cultural contamination by killing and eating anyone who intrudes upon their territory. Therefore...

- we should adopt the Yanomamis' strategy in dealing with advanced civilizations.

Perhaps you are right about Jesus. Perhaps Jesus and the Yanomami would be quite compatible. After all, when I was a teen we played guitars and sang songs at Mass. One relevant verse comes to mind:

Eat His body,

Drink His blood,

And we'll sing

A song of love,

Allelu-, allelu-, allelu-, alleluia.

we are clearly seeing superdimensional hardware, vessel which are observable from our three dimensions, but obviously exist in at least one extra dimension.

Given how fast the can accelerate or instantly break, there could be two extra dimensions, being time a physical dimension from the point of view of a fifth dimension. Hence, FTL - faster than light - travel could exists, without breaking any law of physics valid in the three dimensional universe.

And if time is physical dimension and you are "standing" on the fifth dimension, travelling backward or forward in time, could be a matter of just "walking" some meters, then you just went back in time, or walk in the opposite direction and you travelled to the future. From the point of view of a hyphotetical fifth dimension and being time a physical dimension, "everything" would be happening at once. You could even go further, in this context a "closed loop" in time could be possible, because now what you change in the past, doesn't create a new timeline (as in the multi-verse theories), but just changing some stuff in one point, then a few meters away - in the future - things consequently get changed. "The future changing the past".

Also, if the UFOs are superdimensional objects it becames just logic the things can travel so fast underwater, because they are not interacting fully - probably - with the matter of the three dimensional space. There are other possibilities, the hyphotetitcal superdimensional UFOs probably can travel through solid matter as well, just as they do through air or water. Hence, some stories of UFOs using mountains as bases suddently make a bit of sense, even if you go to the mountain just to find rocks and apparently no bases.

If you can displace mass through a hyphotetical upper dimension above our standard three dimensional o even fourth dimensional (including time), space, suddenly FTL becames a lot more easier, the travel from one star to other star could be instantaneous, or even to 100 galaxies away from your starting point.

Also there you got another possible answer to the Fermi Paradox, the ETs are everywhere, it could hundreds of cities of ETs on the solar system right now, and the galaxy is blowing with life, but almost of them exist in upper dimensions beyond our three dimesional space, hence they remain mostly invisible to us.

The UFOs then could very be just us, humans from the future, travelling to the past to look for something, maybe stuying us like we study Neanderthals.

I wonder, how many sectoid corpses and Elereum they have?

Maybe the aliens will finally come to warn us about turning on AGI. Ha

I wonder if they come and prevent us turning it on, or if they let us, and nuke it once it destroys us?

I feel bad for the whistleblower …

unless he smuggled a piece out of the UFO or takes a guided tour of UFOs with our brightest scientists taking measurements, no one is going to take him seriously . Further may risk pushing the topic into more incredulity

It does sound like the guy was the head of the pentagon's UAP taskforce, and also a senior high level advisor to the president. Not taking him seriously might be the wrong approach?

Please release the pictures and distract everyone so I don't have to figure out this disgusting mishmash of visual basic and sql anymore.

Again ? Are the same aliens like in Rosswell ? /s

Retrieved*

I manually rewrote the headline because it copied in all caps :( sorry. Fixed it.

This claim is to common sens what tirany is to common good. If such absurdity become official, what is the next step ?

Well if common sens is based on the disinformation provided by a tyranical illegal secret structure, then waht? Heh

Maybe you need to update your common sense. Make it uncommon sense, then it will be useful. :)

> tyranical illegal secret structure

In what way something secret would be tyranical ? Illegitimate, ok, but not tyranical.

Tyrany was your analogy. I assume you mean an unjust and illegitimate imposition upon the common good, is alike to an unjust and illegitimate imposition against common sens.

You don't see how secrecy could be placed in the same position with regard to some other thing?

Left as an exercise for the reader. Let me know if you want the next tip! Ha ha ha! :)

BS. They're just paving the way for them to claim their AGI systems are "aliens" after they regulate AI through the roof, so that they can herd the masses and maintain their reign of power. Probably create a new religion while they're at it too. With AI image, video and sound generation, there will be no way to tell the difference between an "alien" and some sophisticated neural network outputs. It's no coincidence that this sort of "leak" is happening right now amid all of the AI buzz, regulation talk and breakthroughs in AI tech.

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