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Comment by andallthat | Hacker News Reader

Are they, though (dogs I mean, not bees)? I would think the same looking at my cat, but I also know that some animals are amazingly good at reading our behaviour, body language and even signals (like smells) that humans can't pick up. See the Clever Hans story for instance. Could it be that we are (unknowingly) giving them hints that bathtime is coming?

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They can do both. I am tired of humans downplaying other species for one reason or another. All you have to do is observe/interact with animals. We are not that different.

I am currently trying to befriend some large birds and man, it takes time.

> I am tired of humans downplaying other species for one reason or another.

That’s not what I took from the comment you’re replying to. Quite the contrary. It is perfectly congruent to agree that humans are not that different from other animals and to ponder if dogs take bath time cues from us instead of knowing which time it is.

It is even possible that dogs could do both. But just like we shouldn’t be quick to assume non-humans can’t do something, neither should we be quick to assume they do it.

The mentioned Clever Hans case is a good example. The trainer misconstrued the horse’s ability to do basic arithmetic (not that impressive by human standards) when in fact it was picking up on tiny cues the trainer didn’t even realise (which is potentially more impressive than a human).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans

By outright assuming a non-human is smart because it can apparently do things we can in a limited fashion (telling time, performing calculations) we’re doing them a disservice. It is by striving to figure out how they really reached a conclusion in their own way that we truly connect and learn.

Not quite sure how to respond to this. My message was clear and concise. A response to someone questioning the ability of dogs to keep track of time in favour of "just picking hints".

That's what they wrote. Didn't even hint they could be doing both. So, you see, your first paragraph, and the entire post really, doesn't make sense given the context.

No, I am not buying your scientific approach here because it feels to me that your starting point is that dogs, for example, can't do $thing and we have to prove that they can. The premise is heavily biased.

tl;dr You're the one relying on assumptions. Not me. That's all the benefit of doubt I can offer you. It's hard, though.

I feel like you might benefit from taking a step back and rereading the conversation while assuming good faith. No one is attacking you or your ideas. No benefit of the doubt is necessary, only the realisation that we’re all people having a polite exchange of views and being respectful of one another.

It pains me that you seemingly misinterpreted intentions to such a large and negative degree.

I genuinely wish you a relaxed Sunday and an uneventful week.

I read it several times and still think you missed the context somehow.

For what is worth, your points make total sense in a vacuum.

Lastly, I was looking forward to a very eventful next week. Again with the assumptions. Have a good one

It’s an expression. When someone wishes you have an uneventful time, it’s in the hope that nothing bad happens.

Please stop assuming others have ill intentions towards you. Accept positive wishes for what they are. Or don’t. I have no idea what I could say that you wouldn’t find a way to turn around.

Hey, I know it's an expression made in good faith. One that I find presumptuous. That's all. Aren't there expressions you're not particularly fond of?

Anyway, this whole interaction reminded me of a book I like[0]. If I remember correctly, in the novel, individual ants track time of day by temperature. It's a bit silly but an intriguing idea.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_of_the_Ants_(novel)

I’ll give it a check. On the larger subject of animals and life, I recommend (non-fiction) The Zoologist’s Guide to the Galaxy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zoologist%27s_Guide_to_the...

if you've ever watched over someone's pet you might agree with the OP more easily. They've never met you and they still know when things are supposed to happen better than you do.

Yes. Anecdotally friends of ours took their dog on a long-haul flight which it found somewhat traumatic. That dog became very sensitive to signs that trips were being arranged/ planned

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