Induction of a torpor-like state in rodents by ultrasound | Hacker News Reader

Induction of a torpor-like state in rodents by ultrasound

livescience.com

70 pointsgeox20 comments

Original paper is accessible: https://www.nature.com/articles/s42255-023-00804-z

Everything about travel to Mars and medical applications is contained in the final sentence of the discussion section,

> UIH may unlock applications ranging from new medical treatments to long-duration human spaceflight.

From that sentence the livescience reporter spun out a couple thousand words of speculation.

“Based on that sentence please formulate an article for my website. It’s gotta be at least 3,000 characters long. Try to add some speculative thoughts. Also please add a click-baity title.”

That frequency is bang-smack in the middle of the range used by prenatal ultrasound. The UK NHS released a statement discouraging the use of "4d" ultrasonics to make pre-birth videos. This sort of result highlights why this was a good call, if only based on the precautionary principle.

On the flipside, the reason for these recommendations were papers about the effects of ultrasound on tissues, for example (taken at random):

"Basta et al. [46] observed that in single-layer endothelial cells, ultrasound of variable durations between 1.3 MHz and 2.6 MHz with a mechanical index of 1.5 produced increased intracellular oxidation of endothelial cells in addition to endothelial damage under exposure times greater than 30s. This damage lasted up to one hour after exposure. After 15s, it was shown to stagger the DNA and produce leakage of lactate dehydrogenase."

This is interesting. Do you have links to any of the other papers?

There are a few literature reviews floating around, here's one:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8954895/

and another:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3262273/

I have a feeling that someone will soon a link between this discovery and the whole "Sonic attacks in Cuba" mystery

(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome)

Conspiracy theories aside, this is super fascinating and makes me think that if the technology pans out, the potential is immense for treating emergencies where the body cannot self regulate temperature, such as heatstroke.

I believe the Havana syndrome is caused by terahertz screening, and that terahertz is not health safe in long term exposure.

There is an existing person claiming to be a DOD contractor whistleblower on the subject of remote neuro tech that claims a method of hypothalamic interaction is in current use (though the claims re. capability basically go all the way so to speak). Yes this not a well established claim, and conspiracy theory-like in its nature, but that would have to be the case as it couldn't be otherwise (unless the tech was not classified).

Martin Seidel: A high-level summary of some capabilities. https://vocaroo.com/1eqnsEwSYLlZ https://vocaroo.com/1eMX8LOUYrV6 https://twitter.com/MartinS67861003

Also see: https://gilfox.wixsite.com/akwei

I would be curious if anyone could see this because through some playful testing I was able to find that my posts only on this subject are censored/shadowbanned on certain platforms.

I remember when, as a student commutting between home and the university, I was very often going to a high-speed train station equipped with "mosquito" devices (actually the normal speakers were used to emit the "mosquito" sounds as well).

Maybe I was particularly sensitive but these sounds were sucking all the energy out if me (each 30 seconds when they were occurring), and I was feeling extremely depressed and tired. Looks like what the poor mice are experiencing.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the brain suffers some kind of damage because of these sounds, either directly, or through damage to the inner ear sensorial cells...

I'm sure it was "mosquito" signals, because I used a sound spectrometer app on my smartphone and I could clearly see the peak around 18kHz appearing every 30 seconds on the spectrogram.

18kHz is inside the human hearing range, though at the far end. The ultrasonic sound in these mice experiments was 3.2 MHz, for 50ms duration, and pulsed 10 times a second. Not sure if the 18kHz sound you were subjected to and this mice experiment are comparable in terms of effects. (but I have no doubt that a consistent 18kHz chirp would be quite unpleasant and draining).

The frequencies used in this research are several orders of magnitude higher. I doubt they'll have a related effect. I wouldn't worry about brain damage.

Tbose mosquito signals are intended to be painful and distracting, though, so it's no wonder your body is responding negatively to them. They're bound to take a mental toll and I can't fathom why such ultrasonic weaponry is even allowed in public places in the first place. The whole thing was designed to be an age discrimination tool.

I can only imagine what would happen if one would design a system that intentionally causes discomfort only among the elderly. I'm pretty sure it'll be banned immediately over public health concerns.

Yes, I would really like to participate in an effort to ban them.

I'd also like to start something like a cooperative map of mosquito locations around the world, so that sensitive people can avoid these places/businesses and/or take protective measures (like putting on earplugs, or even just earphones, etc) when passing by.

It would be hilarious if sci-fi like cryosleep ended up being able to be induced via soundwaves.

Deadhead for 7500 years, listen to some kickass cryotunes... riffing on Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom^0

Outer-rim to outer-rim with the sultry velvet tones of AI-Cryo-Jimmy-Church... gives a new kick to the delta-wave inducing latenight FM deejay voice...it's not just delta-wave inducing, turns out it's CryoSleep inducing, hahaha

There was something similar to this a while ago about using sound plus freezing to prevent ice crystals forming, which made biologicals cryo-cold but not ice-ruptured.

0: https://craphound.com/down/Cory_Doctorow_-_Down_and_Out_in_t...

My 1984 brain thinks this is never gonna be used for cryosleep, but more likely as a crowd control mechanism.

Don't want protesters in front of your building? Just put 'em to sleep! The most efficient way to pacify(tm).

You need to target some specific location in the brain for that, if that is even possible in humans.

Ultrasound is not very conductive by air [1]. The frequency used in the research process is 3.2MHz, and we can safely conclude it will be absorbed much (looks like thousands times) faster than sound in human voice range.

[1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Attenuation-of-sound-in-...

The power needed to control the crowd with this technique will be prohibitively big. You can just use boat sirens with 1/100 of the power and get same crowd-dissipation results.

I love this because it's another example of us not really knowing what's going on and using blunt instruments. What should we do next? Blast it with ultrasound!

Cool, sounds like it could be used to create a fence that can deter rodents from crossing.

Yes, this surely has industrial ramifications.

Finally, someone has found a way to build a better mouse-trap.

Maybe we can make stasis pods one day!

Part of the brain that controls metabolism? That sounds like a winner to me.

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