Canonical reveals Ubuntu for Android | Hacker News Reader

Canonical reveals Ubuntu for Android

extremetech.com

124 pointsmrsebastian61 comments

"The other problem is that while Canonical is pushing the build to hardware manufacturers and mobile carriers, it has no plans to release it to the general public for independent development."

It seems to crazy to me that Canonical is going to lock down this software and not let people try to install on their own devices for their own purposes.

While I couldn't be more excited by the idea of this project, that article made me very concerned about the future of Canonical and where they are going as a company.

This is basically FUD being spread (amazingly quickly as well).

http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android/commercial-info Ubuntu for Android licensing

Ubuntu for Android components produced by Canonical are generally licensed under the GPLv3 or LGPLv3. Alternative licensing is available on the proviso that Canonical retains discretionary rights to include work done in the public versions of Unity and Ubuntu.

Ubuntu is and will always be free and open source. The Ubuntu trademark might need to be licensed for manufacturers wanting to ship this with their phones, but that is well within Canonical's rights according to http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

Bottom line, FUD. The source for Ubuntu TV is out there already. No reason to expect anything different here.

Are they planning on locking it down after release? If so, they will really piss off the open source ecosystem.

However, controlling the release of pre-alpha software that doesn't work very well on existing hardware seems like a very good idea to me.

From http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android/commercial-info:

> Ubuntu for Android components produced by Canonical are generally licensed under the GPLv3 or LGPLv3. Alternative licensing is available on the proviso that Canonical retains discretionary rights to include work done in the public versions of Unity and Ubuntu.

It sounds like this will be released as free software, and the GPLv3 pretty much forbids locking it down.

I think that what they are saying in the article is that they won't be releasing the code until they have a hardware partner; so you can't download it now and try to hack it to work with CyanogenMod or something. But once they have a hardware partner, the code will all be released under the GPLv3.

That understandable, but it's also a bit of a shame, since there's hardware out there that might be able to be hacked to run this already, the Motorola Atrix.

According to http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/21/2812424/ubuntu-for-android... it sounds like there are a couple of large usability issues with the Atrix 2.

Is it more important that it is available now, like Moblin and WebOS are, or that it continues being developed in the future?

Edit: with a little work one might get a previous iteration of this running; https://lwn.net/Articles/482789/

I think this is aimed at devices like the Motorola Atrix. Considering that device never went anywhere, they're likely looking for more manufacturers to create a device like that.

Thanks for tracking that down. It's good to know that everything will still be released under GPLv3. I just hope that working with a hardware partner won't end up locking down something awesome to just a select few devices.

Thanks again for the clarification though lambda.

>However, controlling the release of pre-alpha software that doesn't work very well on existing hardware seems like a very good idea to me.

I disagree. Releasing as early and as often as possible, not matter the state of the project, is a fundamental basic of open source development.

I somewhat trust Canonical to uphold the ideals of Free Software, even though I am severely disappointed in their products lately (the only thing they've done/announced recently that I thought is a really good idea was the HUD). I don't hold this against them for this reason, but I don't think it's a very good decision, either.

It's insane. Talk about forgetting one's roots.

It is. That's why they are not doing it:

http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android/commercial-info

Let's wait until we hear some firm details before grabbing the pitchforks.

Canonical has done many questionable things recently, but innovation like this is why they are going to succeed commercially.

A request for future posts from extremetech.com (and essentially all other "news" services like this).

Please look for a 'Print' view, which displays the content on 1 page and in a much better format:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/119031-canonical-reveal...

This started off sounding really cool, and then on page 2 they reveal pretty much nobody's going to have access to it.

"Realistically, Ubuntu for Android has been developed for future handsets that are going to have the horsepower to push everything the software is going to require."

So, like, six months from now.

If the phone could access remote computing resources then this would be awesome. (I could show you stuff I've written years ago saying you should "dock" a phone, wirelessly, to keyboard and monitor and have it also connect to external CPUs and GPUs. I'm sure other people have had the same idea.)

I'm just really skeptical that a smartphone has enough computing power for me to want to use it as my desktop. That's why Apple has gone the route of iCloud; you have your content already synched to your desktop but you keep the interfaces and hardware separate. This is a move that won't be viable until hardware catches up. Or it will be like the original MacBookAir: underpowered but good for certain mobile business users.

As much as I loathe anything cloud related, I feel the need to mention that Ubuntu has their own cloud service called Ubuntu One, which can sync files[1]. So the possibility is there.

If they are successful with Ubuntu Android, it might mean more people switching to Ubuntu on their desktop, too, which would be a win in the long term.

[1] This is a Nautilus plugin as far as I remember, so it works on any computer where you can install it.

There does exist an APK on the market for some devices that seems to contain an Ubuntu like userspace. It seems handy for phones with HDMI out or docking stations. It requires things to be rebuilt for Arm, but many things seem to be available.

"Canonical has unveiled that its goal is to narrow down the amount of devices that you carry to just one that will provide the same functionality of all three items mentioned above."

This isn't a software problem. Moreover, this isn't a solvable hardware problem -- For something to replace a laptop, it had better have a physical keyboard to type comfortably on.

For it to fill the role of a tablet, it had better be light, easy to use with one hand, and with a big enough screen to consume content on.

For it to fill the role of a phone, it had better be small enough to fit into my pocket and easy to hold up to my head.

These requirements are not compatible.

The basic solution might be to "disconnect" the hardware from the input paradigm. Your device would be a portable computer that you can plug into different input devices: a phone, a tablet, or a docking station with screen and keyboard at home. The OS switches between input paradigms (switches! Not provide a shitty one-size-fits-all solution, like Metro) based on what input device you are using. If it's implemented properly[1], it would be highly modular, so you could decide what sorts of input paradigms you want to have installed, and have different "Input Environments" (sort of like a Desktop Environment, but specific to an input paradigm) or roll your own using components (just like creating your own DE with a WM and additional programs)[1].

With innovative goodies such as the Raspberry Pi demonstrating that you can have pretty usable (as in hardware-specs) general-purpose computer the size of a credit card (and things are only going to get smaller in the future), I don't think this is a far-fetched vision.

[1] In case you haven't guessed it already, this requires a free (as in speech) computing environment, not shitty, locked-down pseudo-computers like many (most?) smartphones and tablets these days.

We're already well on the road to disconnecting it in an even more fundamental sense. Our computing is moving to "the cloud", and our local systems are turning into windows into this cloud.

The backend is already being disconnected from the UI used to manipulate it.

This is a very neat idea. I highly doubt that Google will accept it over ChromeOS. In my opinion this will get Ubuntu to get crazy popularity if they manage to make it as an app for non-rooted devices.

Anyone else feel like Canonical is fragmenting themselves into oblivion?

I feel that Canonical is making the same mistake Apple did. Taking engineers off of OS X Leopard and putting them to work on iOS was such a bad move.

In Canonical's case, it's an even worse idea, isn't it? Why spend engineer resources targeting the tiny Android market rather than the huge desktop Linux market?

Obvious sarcasm aside, I'm really happy to see Ubuntu innovating here. If it was commercially available, I'd be plunking my money down now. But I'm already a Linux user so I'm an easy sale. Kudos to Ubuntu to try and market to people other than those like me.

Except that everybody always wanted an iOS device, so it was obviously an easy sell for Apple to do that.

Trying to sell people an Android phone that happens to have Ubuntu on it? How are you going to reach consumers? Are you going to get a carrier on board? Good fucking luck.

In 2005 & 2006 nobody wanted an iOS device because nobody outside of Apple knew about it. If investors had heard that Steve Jobs was stealing engineers from OS X to work on a phone they would have been slammed in the press for cannibalizing their core products to enter a market with a lot of well capitalized competitors.

And look how well that turned out! Apple made the right moves at the right time. Some of it was probably luck. But canabalising their Mac and iPod markets has made Apple one of the most successful companies ever.

Not sure Shuttleworth has a similar insight on the state of mobile computing but if they can create a great product, maybe they have something.

How are you going to sell Unix to people who don't know what Unix is (and don't care)? Apple did it pretty well, and even "got" it onto an incredibly successful smartphone ("got" in quotes because I don't know if iOS is POSIX or not, just that it's based off OSX).

Here's how it will be marketed: an Android phone that turns into a desktop. "Everyone" wants a single device with all their data already there (hence the success of Gmail, GDocs, Dropbox, etc). "Everyone" is in quotes because not everyone wanted a iOS device, just like not everyone wants a Android+Ubuntu device. The bet in the market is that enough people will want your device to make it a success.

"Why spend engineer resources targeting the tiny Android market rather than the huge desktop Linux market?"

Because the mobile market will be much larger than the desktop market in the future, and that future isn't far away.

It was sarcasm.

Hint, sarcasm doesn't come through in text very well.

It should if the word "sarcasm" is in the post.

Was that sarcasm?

No no, the quotes desarcasmize it.

writing two paragraphs that could be serious before saying "obvious sarcasm aside" is not making things better. People are confused for two paragraphs, then are trying to figure out what is and isn't "obvious sarcasm". None of it was obvious. The first two paragraphs are not obvious sarcasm. There are a whole bunch of people that would have written it and been dead serious.

sarcasm. Look, the word sarcasm is in my comment, which parts of it are sarcasm? Obvious sarcasm aside.

People that don't bother reading as far as the fifth sentence before responding kinda deserve whatever's coming to them.

You missed my point. It was not obvious to me what was or wasn't sarcasm. I'll be it wasn't obvious to most people. Saying "obvious sarcasm aside" does not make it obvious.

Usually when someone says "-foo- aside", they're referring to the immediately previous text. Add in to this that the terms in the immediately previous sentence were exaggerated, and it should at least give a hint at where the sarcasm lay.

"Add in to this that the terms in the immediately previous sentence were exaggerated"

This isn't true, and that's my point. If you take out the last paragraph, it could easily be a serious statement from many people around here.

"In Canonical's case, it's an even worse idea, isn't it? Why spend engineer resources targeting the tiny Android market rather than the huge desktop ... market?"

What is exaggerated? Oh, maybe adding the word Linux makes it an exaggeration? I think my point holds that sarcasm doesn't come through well in text!

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/02/canonical-endin...

Looks like consolidation around mobile/embedded/consumer devices to me.

Direct link to Canonical's announcement: http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android

HN discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3617238

What about input devices? Via bluetooth? Or am I missing something that is in the dockstation?

It's being demoed on the Atrix 2 lapdock. Google for that to get an idea of the sort of target Ubuntu has in mind.

That would depend on the phone.. either bluetooth, USB (many new phones support USB otg which allows connecting peripherals), or some kind of docking solution, like the atrix system. Theoretically I don't see why you couldn't use the phone's touchscreen itself, if nothing else was available.

Wouldn't it be cool to use a projected laser keyboard and virtual trackpad for input?

Any user feedback on what the typing experience feels like tapping on a table with synthetic clicks as feedback? How does one hold modifier keys?

Weirdly enough, wrote about something like this, back in 2008 : http://www.vijayanand.name/2008/10/the-future-of-living-how-...

It was still a very Nokia Centric world, back then.

Wonderful, so Desktop Linux, on a phone. Because Desktop Linux, on a desktop PC worked so flawlessly, and Ubuntu was so user-friendly that they needed to replicate that awesome experience to mobile devices. (sarcasm intended)

I would be much, more interested in a raw, low-level Linux platform, upon which others can build a fresh new touchscreen-oriented UI, minus all the KDE/Gnome cruft. I really don't want my phone looking like a clone of Windows 3.1.

Not sure why you got downvoted, but I agree. I've been trying out each new upgrade of Ubuntu for about 6 years now. They've come a LONG way. Say what you want about Ubuntu but it has improved ten fold since the beginning.

I apologize in advanced for my negative, probably incorrect, generalized opinions about linux and perticularly Ubuntu but I just can't help but feel this way.

After all these years of messing with linux, I think I finally understand what linux is all about. Behind the sugar coated philanthropic message of "free software (with bad UIs) for the world" to give the open source community a feeling of vision and humane pride, it's really about giving people the freedom to dick around with their computers. That's it. That's all. It's an OS for people who like to dick around and try new things and feel like they've customized their own machine and their own experience. Same as the custom PC crowd (me). That's just the way we are.

As soon as Canonical tried to actually fulfill linux's goal of bringing Ubuntu to the masses the older linux community got upset. I too got upset. Where the hell where my options?! Almost as if to say, "how dare you design for those heathens and not us hard core tweakers". Now it's getting apparent that Mark Shuttleworth has Steve Jobs envy but the guy is trying to take linux in the right direction. Easy to use, easy to maintain, and well designed. Unfortunately the majority of open source software (software without a company or sponsor that oversees developement) does NOT have this same goal. For them it's about being free and wild and raw and "who cares about the shitty UI, just use commands" So what we're going to end up with is a well designed OS with atrocious software. Thus an experience with a split personality.

Also, in the world of linux, success is not measured by "market share", it's measured by "ability to dick around with the code" aka freedom. Installing what you want, using it how you want, whenever and however you want. Which is the exact opposite of what 95% of what consumers want, for things to just "work". So I think Ubuntu on phones is going to be really awesome for people like me who like to just mess around and try out new things, but I honestly don't see it going anywhere. 10 years from now Ubuntu on the phone is going to be like Ubuntu on the desktop: It's just there and you know, maybe 1 or 2 people, that actually use it.

That's my $0.02. Sorry for being an ass but as an average person that's the vibe I'm getting from Ubuntu and Linux (Gos, Debian, Mint) in general.

Slightly unrelated but why is there a dock in the images:

http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android

It's 2012 you guys, I think we can do away with cables now.

Maybe because pushing 1080p @ 60fps, while running a dual Android/Ubuntu stack while connected to a 3G or WiFi network might be a burden on the battery.

Good luck running your high resolution screen over wifi.

I think Canonical are going to die if they keep on the crack pipe as much as recently. This is a fine example of it. Customers and users are dropping like flies already. I don't know anyone now who hasn't bailed on then and gone with mint, Debian or centos.

>I don't know anyone now who hasn't bailed on then and gone with mint, Debian or centos.

you must not know many people. ubuntu's numbers certainly haven't shrunk over the last few years.

I don't know what Ubuntu's numbers are doing, but you need to consider the rate of growth as well.

Take the following hypothetical situation:

  * Say, every month, a small percentage of the userbase stop
    using Ubuntu (and switch to Mint or OS X, for example).
  * Say the rate of growth is shrinking.

You've already hit the inflection point: if that trend continues, your userbase will start shrinking, you'll wonder why everyone's leaving all of a sudden, and you're suddenly in a position of trying to pull the project out of a nosedive you didn't realise you were in.

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/stats-show-ubuntu-not-los...

Ubuntu's user base is growing faster than mint's is. And I don't even want to mention how ridiculous the concept of using hypothetical statistics to defend your point is.

I'm not saying that Ubuntu is losing users or growing any slower than any other distribution.

I'm just saying that "is not currently losing users" is not the only statistic that should be taken into consideration.

(I'm not defending anyone's point; that was my first post in the thread. I'm also a relatively happy Ubuntu user.)

Canonical has explicitly stated that they're going after the casual user market, filling that niche because there's already plenty of power desktop distros out there... and no distro that focuses on casual use. If you want a power distro, you should be using Debian anyway. Canonical is right in choosing to help linux into this unfilled niche.

> I don't know anyone now who hasn't bailed on then and gone with mint, Debian or centos.

Are these people paying customers, purchasers of support? Canonical has to become profitable soonish in order to secure long term future. Future looks like mobile/embedded devices with some corporate desktop use/ Linux Thin Client stuff.

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