Deep-brain stimulation during sleep strengthens memory: study | Hacker News Reader

Deep-brain stimulation during sleep strengthens memory: study

uclahealth.org

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This may be the first study using electrical stimulation, however, similar research has shown TCMS (magnetic), auditory stimulation, light stimulation, and haptics having the same results.

At https://soundmind.co we are working with auditory stimulation (sound) - a selection of research can be found at https://soundmind.co/research.

The mechanism this is believed to work through is essentially interrupting the brain during slow-wave sleep which causes the brain to increase the synchronized firing of neurons.

The impact is on more than just memory, downregulation of sympathetic nervous system during sleep, improved immune function, and more.

Hey, I've been on your waitlist for quite a while! When can I buy your product? I've been on the verge of building my own EEG due to a lack of quality options.

Thanks,

We're working on it.

We have some units out with test users, but we're conscious of creating something great here, and not rushing out with a product nobody will be happy with.

We're also making sure we have the right GTM that the business can last. We've seen lots of failure in this space in the past.

I wish I could give you a date, but at this point I can't confidently say when we'll go into production.

Can I ask why you are looking for an EEG sleep device? We're less focused on just building an EEG, and more focused on solving a need in the market.

> I've been on the verge of building my own EEG due to a lack of quality options.

That's how startups start, my friend.

are there any studies backing up the claim of auditory stimulation having a beneficial effect?

many, many, many. A selection is on our website https://soundmind.co/research

Note: We aren't talking about "gentle tones to help you fall asleep". This is a closed-loop neurofeedback system.

Is that a binaural beats thing?

No. This is a closed-loop neurofeedback system.

These patients already had electrodes in their brains as a part of their epilepsy management and these were used to deliver the electric currents.

The method feels problematic. The first trials are basically learning that one can associate celebrities with animals. Repeating that same type of task to the same group feels like latent learnings behind the first trial could account for a causal amount of the improvement.

Interesting overall still.

[edit] Full paper here. Issues persist, still cool. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41593-023-01324-5.pdf

If it feels problematic, it's probably because you are missing the fact that there is a control and treatment group of this experiment to control for what you are saying.

It was stated that the treatment group did the assigmment twice, the first evening without, the second evening with electrical stimulation. Without evidence to the contrary, the memory improvement could be due to consolidation of the stimulus received instead of 'new' memories being stored better.

Although it could be much clearer, the article doesn't actually specify an order. Half the participants did the stimulation night first, per the paper:

>participants were tested during two experimental nights (order counterbalanced): an intervention night and an undisturbed night

That was my sentiment as well.

They should have controlled for it with a control group taking the two tests in reverse. Or maybe just increase the delay before repeating the second test.

Interesting. Makes me think whether REM (as there is a lot of brain activity in that stage) evolved as something that would make our memories stronger perhaps?

The overall REM stage is in fact critical for the consolidation into long term memory of procedural information learned during the day. Suppressing REM leads reliably to deficits in this type of learning. Interestingly however, prozac fully mitigates this deficit without restoring the actual dreams themselves, which suggests that the mechanism is somewhat independent from dreaming.

Why do these brain stimulation experiments always seem to result in some sort of benefit? Do these things ever result in a loss of capability?

Technically, even electroshock therapy has positive effects, if you ignore the side effects

Long term side-effects may develop over time and may therefore not be caught in these studies. Longitudinal studies are needed to study this. As an anecdote, a relative of mine has has had dbs for years due to brain disease and has developed paranoia. May or may not be related.

Because you're only hearing about the ones that worked out. Unless you're deep in the weeds you aren't hearing about the things that are being tried but don't work.

My sibling has DBS for turrets. Turns out a side affect they warn you about is that you might forget how to swim. The neurologists strongly recommended caution when in the water.

Scientists zap sleeping severe epileptic* humans' brains with electricity to improve their memory.

Fret not about your forgetfulness, Fossil-free Micro-zaps to the rescue! It’s micro, it’s small. It tingles and improves memories and introspection and friendships!

This may not be a good idea to "disturb" that much the "sleep" regime for a brain as it is probably required for its "stability".

A certain billionaire is receiving a lot of criticism for owning a company that experiments on primate brains. Suddenly we get articles like this one normalizing running electricity through human brains.

Is there already a term for this? For the opposite of yellow journalism, articles designed to suppress scandals rather than generate them. It seems like there should be a term for this given how often this happens.

"Rich Guy Wants To Zap Your Brain — That's a Good Thing"

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