US military has been observing ‘metallic orbs’ making extraordinary ‘maneuvers’
thehill.com
thehill.com
Until I realized that it was a strand of a spiders wed that, when suspended in front of the camera in an arch, causes the infrared light of the camera to reflect back at two points. As the wind blows gently the reflections move up and down.
It is with mixed feelings, both satisfaction and dismay, I accept that the mystery is no more.
We're not dumb, we're trained in observation and identification, and we see (visible light|single-spectrum) anomalies all the time and those get dismissed as whatever.
On the other side of the coin, we often do see stuff like Mylar balloons and other odd, but un-shocking aerial phenomena, so it's important to keep investigations scientifically-rigorous.
If you click on some of the report links in the article, they lead to some reports about the "sphere in translucent cube" UAPs, along with many reports about what are clearly off-the-shelf and customized drones (eg. DJI and custom builds and the like).
There's definitely something odd going on, but I feel like the news media is really trying to trump it up for clicks.
The fantasy of pilots circling around balloons in unceasing awe and amazement provides a feeling of superiority, the "obvious" resolution there just as in stories such as GP's instill the idea of being in perfect command of the relevant context.
UAPs on the other hand, the idea of them being indications of the presence of some superior non-human intelligence, that is representing ultimate loss of control. Threatening to call into question too many comfortable convictions.
At any rate, I don't think anyone claims to offer a complete explanation for everything that exists.
The evangelical line is that the bible is both true and sufficient to understand all you need to know for salvation, not that it's sufficient to understand everything. All phenomena are not claimed to be explained or even described.
But that's really beside the point, the point is that, with our current level of scientific knowledge, believing in FTL aliens who are zipping around Earth and performing other stunts in violation of the known laws of physics is not different than believing in magic and demons. The only thing that's changed is your interpretive lens - one has a lot more cachet in a world where science fiction is more read than theology.
It's a apocalyptic stance that for some (certainly not all) creates a nasty dis-association with the here and now. After all if heaven/hell was always the only point, then this life is like a Las Vegas weekend. It's not our place, not our home and in 72hrs we're out anyway.
I wrote before evangelical theology is sufficiently ill-defined such that it can incorporate major changes in understanding which is a kind of consistency problem. Nobody with a dose of common sense about the prevailing attitudes in monotheistic religions would say detection of non-earth based life changes nothing. The old testament creation story is all earth centered, and all earth-man centered all the time.
You might enjoy Ken Wilbur's "Quantum Questions" in this context. He writes a mini biography on all the major 20th century scientists many of whom held a spiritual core although (as far as I can remember) not an American evangelical line. I think the book makes a good point. No scientist uses science as means to prove or disprove God/theology. And no scientists uses the Bible to disprove or prove rational facts about the world we live in. Either way it's a corruption of the other. Nonetheless the evangelical line and its literal take on the new Testament is what it is.
There is no God. We're not living in end-times. Satan doesn't exist. Final judgement isn't pending. Salvation is an unforced problem. And no proof of aliens or even bacterial life off-earth is demonstrated with rational evidence.
This brings us to a world more like Camus'. Existence is absurd. Meaning is living a full live despite the absurdness of it akin to Sisyphus pushing the rock up the hill to have to retrieve it when it rolls down and push it up again. Our job is to make something of that while we can.
I like Camus, and most would categorize my philosophical beliefs as some breed of Nietzschean, but I think it's very important to develop a deep an understanding of other attitudes as possible, and I don't think this is generally true. For example, CS Lewis is widely loved by evangelicals [1] and he literally wrote fiction laying out how he thought aliens would fit within that cosmology[2]. There is really nothing in particular that would change theologically. Of course it may change things culturally.
More interesting to me, and what I was referencing, is that many evangelicals (and others, famously the orthodox Seraphim Rose) interpret UFO activity as spiritual phenomena, and attribute it to demons. Some of these works are certainly thought-provoking, if you can suspend your preconceptions going into them. [3] Certainly if I am to believe in the reality of the underlying incidents and were forced at gunpoint to attribute it to intelligent entities, I actually find the idea of "demons messing with people because they hate us" more persuasive than the absurd utopian idea that aliens are using their magic tech to fly across the galaxy so they can "uplift" us or any of the other nonsensical motivations usually given.
[1] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/one-man-thinking-cs-lewis_b_8...
[2] His space trilogy.
[3] Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future in particular has an interesting chapter or two about this. What I found particularly intriguing is the idea that the actual incidents are not actually new, with descriptions of historical parallels, and we're simply interpreting ancient phenomena in a different way due to cultural changes, and the brief analysis of the psychological impact of UFOs, which is almost uniformly very negative to witnesses.
I'll try to come back in middle with a few things I also heartily respect:
- certain persons are able to wholly soak their life in Christianity and do right with it to the benefit of all. I think of my sister. I think of the Secretary of State from the mid-west (name and state forgotten by me) who was hit on to do illegal stuff around the USJan6 debacle. This guy calmly explained his position to the Jan6 commission centered in his belief and his duty to God with its moral underpinnings. And he did as an authentic individual. No stock phrases like "As a Christian man" thereby putting emphasis on identity or grandstanding. He earned my respect. He knew the right thing. He reasoned the right thing. Then he did the right thing. Gotta admire that.
- religion was our first kind of shared culture. It provides some guidance on moral and ethical behavior. My parents (really my mother) raised me broadly under this background and it did right by me. Duty, knowing and doing the right thing even if it's temporarily uncomfortable, and having humility are important. Now, I'm leaving out square light years of details and nuance in so saying, but I acknowledge a good thing is good.
On aliens: my goto hunch is sensor spoofing either by creating a signal that's sensed and misinterpreted as bonafide, or a hack in the sensor systems itself. Demons? ET? These are extra ordinary phenomena that are gonna need extra ordinary evidence.
In conclusion I'm heartened we both ended up with one foot in Camus. The French aren't half-bad at philosophy! Cheers.
I have another interesting story about that, from the century before the last one as it happens: my great grandfather and a friend of his was walking along a road on a misty evening, talking about this and that. After a while another man caught up with them and made them company for a stretch, but without saying anything. After another while the man dropped off and disappeared into the fog.
My great grandfather and his friend continued for a while in silence, until the friend felt he had to say what he sensed was on both of their minds: "Uhum, did you notice something odd about that man that made us company just now?", "yes! I certainly did" said my great grandfather "but I didn't want to say. He didn't have a head!". "Exactly!" said the friend.
To this day nobody can understand how a man without a head could be seen walking around in the Danish countryside.
And one more thing, this was in the days when capital punishment was still in effect, but with a growing opposition from the humanitarian, enlightened liberal bourgeoisie. And a story about how a decapitated criminal is haunting arbitrary pedestrians does fit that agenda. All subconsciously construed of course.
How do they know exactly where to be so that multiple aircraft can kind of see them, but zero people are able to get high quality video or pictures? It seems like a very narrow window of exposing your existence. So narrow that it could only be intentional. But why do it at all?
And maybe other tech to make themselves less visible via vision, ie, light bending or something like that.
They might want to see how humans react to the possibility of aliens, without completely freaking the planet out by landing somewhere, walking out of a ship, and saying "take me to your leader".
savegames
> But why do it at all?
Why ... there's no needin' to explain a "fuckin' with" ...
The military is not into scientific rigor as much as it is into blowing things up and supporting contractors while chasing/developing tech.
We are conveniently in arms races with: China, Russia, etc.. and starting a most likely terrible election cycle with lots of new tech to be used.
It follows that UAP concerns can easily pivot into “enemy tech” arms races, when necessary.
If that does turn out to be true it’s a major turning point in world history as the US discovers they are now are no longer the most powerful airforce in the world and has some very real and very serious knock on effects that come with it.
And second, from my own personal experience working in this area. We saw anomalous stuff on visuals/FLIR all the time. When you start seeing stuff on visuals/FLIR and radar/lidar/sonar/etc systems, then it's definitely worth a decent look.
I would send in some of my own, as I think it’s a funny and beautiful thing when a mundanely localized supernatural mystery is solved by investigating.
A tone of mild disappointment is a pretty common denominator experience that grins.
Then they said the date when it happened. My girlfriend and I looked at each other instantly, because at this date we attended a wedding in Belgium, just near the frontier, and there was this activity where we launched these Chinese paper lanterns. We launched like 2 dozens, and it was quite windy, so it’s no surprise some did cross the frontier to be seen by our TV witnesses.
There were no other lights, and the stars weren't visible there, so I could understand seeing a UFO moving around in the autokinetic effect. A very fun optical illusion to play with, or deeply concerning to someone who doesn't know about it. Unnatural motion seems to get the highest weight in these sightings, so I wouldn't be surprised if this effect is the #1 culprit. Imagine how the ISS or even any satellite would look with that effect, floating around as it goes from dim, to bright, to dim as it crosses the sky.
Judging from how many I pick out of bushes on my desert property, there's a whole lot of them floating around the atmosphere.
My assumption is they're responsible for at least some of these UAP reports...
We already have one well documented example of this:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/1372976/ufo-sighting-pe...
I find it rather surprising, the US population throwing insane amounts of money at their military while simultaneously judging them to be imbeciles.
Modern radar is of course perfectly capable of seeing a balloon for what it is. Pilots circling around them in unceasing awe is pure fantasy.
So you suppose there's no reason for the US military to deliberately appear this way?
"Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak" - Sun Tzu
If the choices are between "aliens are real" or "the US military is composed of humans with largely normal human ability to be wrong", I know which one I'd pick.
Most UFOs aren’t balloons, but we have recent examples of balloons being identified as UFOs.
The story always seems to be: there are thousands of reports of UAP. Most of them are readily identifiable, and thus eliminated as UAP, leaving some hundreds of reports that could not be identified. They then release one or two videos, which usually have plausible explanations and don't conform with the wilder UAP descriptions.
Only if you do not have a "friction negation" field for your air/spacecraft.
>> it appears to be moving faster than a jet.
From the article: "Graves and at least 50-60 fellow naval aviators observed unknown objects, frequently via multiple sensors, that remained stationary over the ground even in hurricane-force winds, or traveled at speeds faster than sound."
With negated friction it does not matter what the shape is, you can go fast.
This would imply that you are under 25 today, you will probably encounter aliens in your lifetime. If we aren't certain about extraterrestrial life by 2065, I'd be very surprised. Given the distances such a species must travel and how far apart they must be from one another in such diverse physical conditions, their ethics and beliefs are probably indexed on sustainable existence - typically being the only instances of themselves in a given solar system. Without some thread of continuity through time and space and a way to feed back their distant discoveries and development across their species, extinction across solar systems would seem like a constant risk for them. Favourite friday topic.
The difference between "aliens invaded us!" and, "those things that were always around? yeah, turns out they were fine." is about 40 years.
Edit: NASA hearing on them: https://youtu.be/bQo08JRY0iM?t=2132
Perhaps it's actually Von-Neumann probes, or unmanned craft collecting data and observing. I would find this much more likely, but even still, why would they need to keep traveling on earth?
Personally, I keep an open mind about everything, regarding what is possible. I just imagine some civilization thousands or millions of years ahead of us could do things that would seem like magic. It certainly seems plausible in terms of the fermi paradox that we would be being visited. It's just incredibly odd that it would happen this way, and I have very basic questions as to the nature of what this phenomenon even is.
you're tacitly assuming that they ought to have an origin and a goal
It's "incredible" in the sense of "don't believe it without more reliable evidence"
where is there a direct measurement of the speed?
Look at the videos linked. These were perfectly stationary in hurricane force winds, and shot away to one side at the speed of sound.
…but c’mon, people. Occam’s Razor time. There are a lot of options to exhaust before to we get to extraterrestrial intelligence. Just because we can’t explain this doesn’t mean its aliens. It’s a hell of a leap, bordering on religious faith, to credit this to some alien species crossing the vast lightyears of space and time to bounce around some metal spheres.
I would expect advanced aliens to hide completely or be very obvious.
I did not deny there are some objects out there acting in ways we can’t explain.
Now explain why we should immediately jump to aliens.
https://superbowl.substack.com/p/uap-evidence-summary-skepti... (mine)
I must say, Federica Bianco is fantastic. Karlin Toner and Shelley Wright as well. Everything I was thinking and saying at my screen (e.g., data handling and classification protocols, unnecessary introduction of bias through use of synthetic data, anomaly detection paths, concerns with sensors and frame rates) they immediately said, and more.
Glad to see strong women sitting center on this.
I wonder what real thing happened today that this is a smokescreen for?
If the objects were much closer to the camera than the focus that would explain why they can appear to move so quickly.
I had read about the Silurian hypothesis recently, which states that it's extremely hard to detect evidence of a past civilization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silurian_hypothesis Can it be that these metallic spheres are remnants, either AI or non-carbon-based lifeforms from a past civilization? It's all speculation at this point, but I'm starting to find this theory more plausible.
Our bias is that our technology is very capable, and that it is used by highly-trained and intelligent people who are up to the task of observing and classifying unknown objects.
But the truth is that we are, in fact, not all that. We grew up in a pre-technological agrarian civilization. We have many biases, particularly observational ones. We still see demons where there is nothing but the natural world.
The images we see are mostly not photographic in nature. They are highly processed data that we impose our millions of years of evolutionary conditioning upon.
We have learned to trust our eyes, over the millennia, to keep us safe from threats.
Now, in truth, we're not using our eyes, but we still think we are.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36005787
An aside: while searching for microwave stories on hn, this turned up. Possible propulsion method? Just sharing because it’s a fun topic
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/nasa-validates-impossible-sp...
Yes, they have.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/13/politics/pentagon-memo-ca...
https://www.hamradioworld.org/post/the-us-airforce-may-have-...
"Public Meeting on Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (Official NASA Broadcast)"
How does this 2 days old video with 167k views have zero comments, yet comments are enabled? I don't get it. It seems to be legit, unless https://www.youtube.com/@NASAgovVideo/about is a decade-old long con. (It doesn't seem to be, there are plenty of references to it from nasa.gov.)
Maybe someone just enabled comments on the video.
It does look like there was a live chat associated with the video, so maybe that scratched the itch people had to comment?
It was all fun and games until I launched one group that was slightly too heavy and it wrapped around a power line. I had some explaining to do.
I always wondered if the Air Force base that was relatively nearby could get a primary return on the foil.
Either that, or the aliens made their craft transparent on the bottom but forgot to make them transparent on the top.
Not sure what to think really, it seems something is actually there (probably not aliens).
The government doesn't need to "justify" the existence of a Space Force to the public, since the public doesn't approve or deny appropriations. It certainly doesn't need to manufacture an alien invasion, when more prosaic threat models exist.
1. Consider the source, and its history of misinforming the US public to advance its objectives.
2. Lots of boring explanation can't be ruled out.