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>if you Google you can find plenty of studies and resources suggesting NIR can be safe and effective for the eyes as well.

Infrared in the eye causes cataracts, a fact that is all over Google search results. Workers in steel mills for example are about 26 times more likely to need cataract surgery than others their age, but maybe it is not the near-infrared fraction doing that?

I've seen many studies of the effects of red light on the eye, but none of the effects of NIR on the eye, but in avoiding exposing the eyes of experimental human subjects to NIR, maybe researchers are using an overabundance of caution?

Wasn't that supposed to be UV damage?

UV might cause cataracts, too.

Avoid looking at any kind of light, got it.

Except the light you can’t see :D

They light is dangerous too. You do not want to put you had in a microwave oven.

There is no hope.

You can melt rocks with any wavelength, it really depends on the power, cataracts included (assuming non ionizing wavelengths).

I work for hours in my VR headset, with eye tracking enabled...I should probably check up on what that power is.

edit: My point seems to have been missed. IR in the eyes will cause cataracts, but it requires extreme power. It's the heating from the extreme power causing the cataracts, not the wavelength of the photons. The wavelength of the photon just helps that power get absorbed in a way that it's not noticed by things like the retina. IR lasers are especially dangerous because you won't look away/blink, or know besides feeling the heat.

The molten metal is what radiates the IR

No one uses electromagnetic radiation to melt steel or help make steel.

Well, that's technically false [1]. Metal laser cutting/surfacing is common. My point was (besides ionizing radiation), it's not the wavelength that matters, it's the intensity. I changed "steel" to "rocks" to help make the point clear.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5vsUta5lmo

https://fairmontmachinery.com/30kw-on-1-inch-steel/

The wavelength is very important too. 808nm is damaging to the eyes for example, but has wound healing properties when applied directly to injuries[1]. This kind of stuff is a great example of the vast trove of interesting research that nobody outside the alt health world will ever do much with.

[1]https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C3&q=808n...

Most people in the health field don't know about a lot of it either. Unless they're a researcher, they just stick to the protocol on their Epic screen for the most part.

This is so sad but true. In my experience, most doctors learn approximately nothing after graduating medical school. The miracle of AI will be that it will replace these useless people.

> You gotta dig into supplement 1 to find the treatment: "[...] Light source output power: 2.0mW±0.5mW; At a distance of 100mm: 1.07-1.42mw"

Elsewhere it said class 2, which would be < 1 mW. A laser pointer.

> I use red and NIR for collagen boosting on the skin but had until now been too afraid to directly expose my closed eyelids w/o protective goggles as I noticed light spots (I use a close-up helmet). Taking the leap of faith and using light therapy to the point that I have light spots for a few minutes after treatment as described in the study is a leap of faith that I'm afraid may be beyond me.

That's a lot more power. I would avoid anything outside of the visible range and lasers with too much power. For those natural self protection mechanism probably only kicks in when its too late.

I wonder if just wearing glasses with a wratten 29 filter would work?

Maybe the hippies were onto something with those rose tinted glasses, lol.

I'm not a doctor, but I believe the mechanism that causes spots isn't harmful. It's a form of exhaustion of the sensing cells and doesn't necessarily damage them.

Damage really only happens when you get photon burns, which I don't think is possible with closed eyelids and a conventional light-source.

However, you must be very careful around possible IR or UV sources as there will be no reflex to keep your eyes closed, look away or close your pupils! You will at most feel the warmth of the light source in the skin of your face, at which point it is likely too late.

If intentionally sticking your head in a strong light source, wear eye protection.

There are optical illusions where you stare at a highly saturated color for a while and then close your eyes, seeing a negative of the image you stared at in your eyes.

Continuous color sensing is just one of the fictions our brains tell us unfortunately. If you play outside without sunglasses you will find that everything inside looks extremely dark. That's not just pupil contraction, although that plays a role. The photo receptors in your eye have a recharge rate, and very loud colors can exceed that. Your brain keeps adjusting to compensate but you can catch it via rapid changes, like closing your eyes.

> It's a form of exhaustion of the sensing cells and doesn't necessarily damage them.

As someone with experience in the field: this is half true at best, since you can get the same symptons with proper, permanent and irreversible damage. Claiming it is "just exhaustion" is a dangerous attitude to have.

tangent, does the collagen production work and produce healthy skin for you?

i had the same question. I would guess no otherwise those devices would be flying off shelves like crazy.

Light spots are totally normal. If you look at car lights at night for a few seconds you will have light spots when you close your eyes.

So it requires supplements?