ChatGPT took their jobs. Now they walk dogs and fix air conditioners
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For example, today it helped me write a press release. We had dialogue back and forth. I told it to ask me thoughtful questions, and it did. After 5 minutes of back-and-forth, I had the bones of a high-quality press release put together. I then edited it until it met my standards, and submitted it.
This process would have previously taken me a few hours. Today it took less than 30 minutes.
As a result, my value to my employer has gone up because of ChatGPT. I'm able to get a lot more done with it, and they'd be fools to simply replace me with the bot.
In other words, and I'm hardly the only one saying this: ChatGPT is not a replacement for people. It's an augmentation. It's a bicycle for the mind, to steal Steve Jobs's famous metaphor.
I think if you're a writer who refuses to embrace this new reality, you should absolutely be worried. But if you embrace the inevitable, the combination of a skilled copywriter + ChatGPT is incredible. It's my writing partner. I'm still in charge, calling all the shots. But my writing partner helps to prevent writer's block.
Often, I won't use a single word it produced. Instead, it gives me a starting point. Sometimes that starting point is little more than "I need to do better than what this machine produced, because this is crap." But it's soooo much easier to improve on garbage than it is to create out of the blue.
So, I don't think AI is coming for our jobs as writers. If used well, it's the best writing partner you could ask for.
This is the analogy that jumped out to me as well. LLMs seem to be more of a vehicle than a destination. Like a bicycle, LLMs need to be operated with the direction and effort of an operator to ensure it stays on course and doesn’t veer into traffic.
Continuing the analogy, I suspect that LLMs will open up traditional white collar jobs to more people. More people can get to the destination on time with the aid of a bicycle than on foot.
...or we can be freed to spend our time making the content better than ever, because we didn't squander our whole day on the first draft.
All businesses are in the business of maximizing profits. If they can be more profitable with fewer writers, of course they'll reduce staff. But if X content produces Y results, one should expect that 4X content will produce 4Y results. Profitable activities get invested in. Cost centers get optimized.
ChatGPT lowers the bar for content creation, which actually raises the bar for producing content that will stand out. If you're just copying/pasting content from ChatGPT, you'll have a lot more content, but it won't stand out. It's content for the sake of content, as opposed to content that's meant to engage and persuade a person to spend money on your products.
This is especially true with LLMs. They can't come up with truly creative content. LLMs, by design, return the most average content imaginable. This has tremendous value in the hands of a skilled writer/editor.
Remember: The purpose of marketing is to make your brand and your products stand out from the crowd. You're not going to achieve that by producing what is, by definition, the most average content possible.
ChatGPT makes me a better writer. That's all there is to it.
Businesses that don't believe content can sell shouldn't have any writers at all. Those that do should invest in AI-competent writers more than ever.
I maintain that AI is only a threat to me as a writer if either (a) I'm a hack who produces low-value content, or (b) my employer is stupid. I'd rather not work for stupid, anyway.
Let's say it costs $100 for a piece of content, like a blog post. (I'm not suggesting that's the right price, I just like easy math.)
And let's say your return is $200 in sales, leaving you a profit of $100.
If I could double my money like that with every article, I would gladly pay $10,000 for 100 articles if the return is then $20,000. That's a money-printing machine.
Now let's say the return isn't $200 per article, but $105, for a profit of just $5. I wouldn't pay a single penny for it, because I have better ways to invest my money.
This applies to anything in business. Whether it's content, technology, inventory, people, real estate... whatever. If the return is great enough, smart business owners will want more of it.
It has nothing to do with how much time it took or how many people were employed.
It has everything to do with how much it cost versus what the expected return would be.
That's all business is. Turning $1 into $2.
Show me a process that does that, and I'll invest every dime I've got.
Now, let's go back to the original example: $100/article for $200 return. If ChatGPT allows my writer to produce 10X as much content at the same cost (which I doubt... it's a bicycle, not a jet plane, but I digress) without any loss of quality, I would anticipate my returns to be $2,000 for every $100 invested. That would be incredible. I wouldn't just invest every dime I have but I'd max out every dollar I could borrow as well.
BUT: That assumes each piece of content can be just as (or more) effective as those that came before. There's a limit to how much anyone's audience really wants to hear from them.
The answer to this is to invest in finding new audiences. New niches that would want your products. High-quality expert content is a fabulous way of attracting communities of like-minded people. So when you get to the saturation point with one community, there's an opportunity to find another, and then another, and then another, and so on and so forth.
It all hinges on whether the content is actually doing the work it's supposed to be doing. Things that make money get invested in. Things that cost money get optimized or eliminated.
If I was a writer and I lost my job to ChatGPT, I would take a long hard look in the mirror and ask myself why my employer didn't see my value anymore. Was I just producing content for the sake of content? Was my content profitable for them? Was the quality of my writing so mediocre that a machine did it just as well, if not better? If my work generated profits, why would my employer cut me out? Why wouldn't they want even bigger profits? Aren't they in the business of making money?
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Now, I responded to your comment on the assumption that you meant there isn't demand on behalf of businesses for 10X more content. But you may also be saying there isn't enough demand to consume that much content.
In that case, I would argue there's always an appetite for great content. Our expectations just grow as the quantity of available content grows. I don't know about you, but I'm constantly on the hunt for something great to read or watch, and most of the time, all I find is mediocre. I might read one thing a day that really makes me think. If 10X more content means 10X more think-worthy content, stuff that engages me, then I certainly have an appetite for that.
What I do not have appetite for is 100 articles saying the same thing in slightly different ways. If that's the kind of content you're going to produce with the help of AI, then I agree, there's no market for that.
“Think of AI as generally acting as a high-end intern,” he said. “Jobs that are mostly designed as entry-level jobs to break you into a field where you do something kind of useful, but it’s also sort of a steppingstone to the next level — those are the kinds of jobs under threat.”
Every bit of this article worries me. Not because I think it's coming for my job, but because it's coming for so many other jobs. "Experts say that even advanced AI doesn’t match the writing skills of a human: It lacks personal voice and style, and it often churns out wrong, nonsensical or biased answers. But for many companies, the cost-cutting is worth a drop in quality."
That's the part that makes me think this is going to cause some serious job losses. "the cost-cutting is worth a drop in quality." All of the AIs are pretty ok right now, and we're already seeing some (probably not many?) jobs cut because the stuff they make is "good enough". I'm worried what kids just starting college now will face in 4-5 years when they're trying to start a career.For your kids, I think you’re imagining more progress with AI than we’ll have in the next five years. I think the changes of the last 3 years will be much more impactful on new grads. I recently switched role and learning remotely is a lot more difficult for various reasons. I’m already well into my career so I imagine for new grads it will be incredibly difficult. I’d worry more about that than AI provided they’re going to college to study something “useful”.
99% of writing is meh, so ChatGPT is not a downgrade.
In addition, I think we’re living in a huge bubble and are sort of entitled enough to think that Internet = human knowledge. So many jobs and skills are simply not transferable even using human language (and even if they hire an army if “trainers”). This is one of the core problems with the current incarnation of “AI” - tacit knowledge has always been the stumbling block, even back in the expert systems days when everyone was thinking what we’re thinking will happen today.
So until the machines can somehow gain consciousness, autonomous and nimble movement, the will to live and all of the deep levels of the human mind that are outside language, I think we’ll be pretty safe :-) And for now, on all of these parameters they aren’t even close to a cat.
Between social sites, corporate BS and medias farms, it's more like 99.9999999999999999%.
Why? Traditional family unit is over and generations are at war. Let them figure it out. Meanwhile let's not have kids without a clear plan for their future.
* Past performance is not indicative of future results.
It's not surprising that the human race has survived for this long - we always find ways to adapt, no matter what challenges history throws at us. This is what distinguishes us (and I suspect will always do) from the machines.
What now? Established trends have been regularly violated over thousands of years.
> It's not surprising that the human race has survived for this long - we always find ways to adapt, no matter what challenges history throws at us. This is what distinguishes us (and I suspect will always do) from the machines.
You know what would count as an adaptation? Large fractions of population becoming immiserated and either dying off or living in poverty at the margins.
Mere survival is the wrong metric.
However, if you'd like to be pessimistic on it I won't argue, I have that tendency too ;)
And to lighten up the mood, I highly recommend listening to this episode with Gary Marcus, where he invites experts in the field of humor to discuss how distinctly bad the LLMs are at explaining what comes naturally to us: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/can-ai-make-you-laugh/...
"This AI" seems perfectly capable of resulting of extending the kind of economic immiseration that has already affected many blue collar jobs into many types of white collar work (ironically enough, the kind of work those blue collar workers were told to pick up).
Past this iteration of AI, who knows if the advances will peter out, but it's foolish to assume things will be fine because other things were adapted to in the past. That's kinda like assuming you won't die before having kids because none of your ancestors did.
List them.
You mainly been making vague, unsupported assertions backed by emoticons. It's a stretch to call that an "argument," and arguable you haven't been really engaging from the start.
I don't think you can convince me because I suspect you don't really have any support or specifics for your position to provide.
Regardless, I flagged your comment since it really doesn’t follow HN etiquette on respectful arguments.
Come on. If you have them formulated, you should have responded with them. It's not that hard.
> Regardless, I flagged your comment since it really doesn’t follow HN etiquette on respectful arguments.
Again, come on. The disrespectful thing is expecting someone to go on a scavenger hunt just to find out what you, some internet rando, should be saying in your half of a conversation thread.
It's also just bizarre for you to note you flagged my comment. Am I supposed feel intimidated or ashamed or something?
I don’t think that’s true. The archetypal constructs of human cognition have been unchanged. Hence the enduring relevance of myths. It’s always the same stories playing out.
> I don’t think that’s true. The archetypal constructs of human cognition have been unchanged. Hence the enduring relevance of myths. It’s always the same stories playing out.
I think you misunderstand. I didn't say everything has changed, just that many "established trends" have been.
I mean, at some point it was a well established trend that all humans hunted and gathered for their substance, then that trend was violated.
At some point, the trend of "we will find something productive to do with all these people who's jobs have been made obsolete" may be violated. And it seems like that's getting more likely the more rarefied the remaining valuable skills become.
> Mere survival is the wrong metric.
People don't have to live in cities. Knowledge work has brought many people to cities and the absence of it will reverse that trend. It is welfare that keeps impoverished people living in cities.
But I'm basing my opinion on history as well. The focus will be on reducing costs, which means eliminating as many workers as possible.
They don't, and in 10-20 years corporate leaders will bemoan the shortage of high-skilled experienced people that they created through their own decisions. Of course, they won't take any responsibility or change their approach, though.
It's a free rider/prisoner's dilemma problem.
If everyone cooperates then we all come out ahead. If you all cooperate while I defect then I end up even better (I don't have to train anyone). But if we all defect then we're fucked.
It used to be that there was entry level work that needed to be done by humans and so you didn't have this problem. If the entry level work can be done by AI then you need something else. Either government coordination and incentives to hire humans (this is the kind of things gov't is good at). Or people stay in education for longer/education becomes different.
This. Anyone who thinks that their job is safe is fooling themselves.
Is it blindly optimistic to assume that people will eventually yearn for more genuine interaction, daresay truth?
Is it wrong to think that people gain purpose from other people, and that our mammalian instincts will not be so easily conquered?
On top of that, the biggest unaddressed problem that everyone seems to pounce over is tacit knowledge - it cannot simply be transferred even between humans, using words, gestures or any other media. It can only be gained through the human experience, by doing stuff. It’s the same old problem from the expert systems days. So we cannot hope to replace them with AI, at least not until AI somehow becomes self-aware and gains all of the non-surface depths of the human mind, and lives through the same experience.
If your argument is that there won't be anyone to spend money, so even the jobs that AI can't replace won't be safe, then okay.
I hope and trust that they will find meaning in a career fixing and building and caring for physical things that people actually want to pay for. This is a step forward.
For content to have any value, it should contain unique information or an especially good and useful presentation of existing information. Otherwise making that content is just worthless busywork. Like the example in this thread of a poster making a press release. How could AI add any information that is of any value?
The same goes for AI generated images. If your images are not extremely relevant you are doing it wrong. Use images of your product, not random people smiling. Stock photos, Corporate Memphis art and AI images are a negative value for the information you're presenting.
Just as you, I hope companies some day understand that their worthless filler content is just getting in the way of their sales.
An absurd, but seemingly likely, end state of this is an arms race between the two technologies, completely transparent to the user, and resulting in roughly the same user experience, which is always set to the limit of their tolerance.
I would really be worried right now if I were a marketing copywriter. I've seen (and posted about) examples where ChatGPT still falls behind human ingenuity, but the fact is that it really only falls behind some of the best of human ingenuity. Just guessing, but I'd believe that ChatGPT is as good as or better than 75% of copywriters, and even for that upper tier of copywriters, probably only about 10-15% of the writing they do is in an area where the additional quality makes a difference.
Just a worrisome future ahead in my opinion.
What the applicant writes: "I want this job."
How the application is sent: "Dear Sir or Madam, I am writing to you today to inquire about the position of blah blah blah..."
What the recruiter reads: "This guy wants this job."
I'd like a tool I could point at a modern tech company website to read through all the meaningless ad copy and buzzwords and spit out a two-sentence summary of what the thing actually does.
As a demo, try this prompt; you might have to trim some to stay under the token limit:
Summarize the major arguments and sentiment of the following Hacker News posts. Provide your answer in a brief, bullet-point format:
<paste text of HN comment thread here>
What an odd statement. Knowledge work has been automated for as long as I can remember. Compilers, automated QA, data entry, etc. In many fields, more labor demand resulted from productivity gains (software); in others, demand didn't rise to compensate (bookkeeping).
The question is where is additional demand going from higher savings given productivity boosts. I don't see more demand for HVAC technicians. Maybe dog walkers.
But ChatGPT is now killing jobs that are solely about creativity, like copywriting. That is a new, and rather unexpected, turn of events. I saw a good quote, I think it was on Twitter: "What kind of world have we built where the humans slave away at physically demanding jobs for minimum wage, while the computers write poetry and paint all day."
But the point is that the kind of copywriting that CAN be replaced by ChatGPT is just as repetitive and non-creative than those other jobs.
I've worked with good copywriters, and was impressed with the quality of writing they did. The point is that ChatGPT excels at the type of creative writing that previously we thought was solely the domain of humans. I think you are getting things backwards if you think that because ChatGPT can do it that it is repetitive and non-creative.
Actually when you think about it, even clerical work was "automated" by printing press.
Automation of production of generic content is bit scary, but it might free up resources or just show what the truly value of that work was.
They also don't fail to realize when you ultimately drive 80% unemployment due to AI replacing everyone's job. That war is going to be internal and it's going to look like the French revolution.
80% unemployment managed with machine guns and state control of all information sources.
There comes a point at which the plebs can't do anything about their fate.
But that's why we have TikTok, Instagram, Netflix, cheap Corn Syrup, and Porn. You keep the plebs hedonistically satisfied while you slowly consolidate your power and protect it with an autonomous army. THEN you pull the plug.
I think that was very intentional. Put the focus on scary-sounding things that aren't actually an imminent risk in order to distract from those things that are.
A bit over 40K if you count everyone, and closer to 60K if you just count people working full time.
The government will later offer debt relief to those who agree to be permanently sterilized. It will offset your debt by giving huge amounts of carbon credits for the emissions your children would have been guilty of.
This is horrifying.
I have one friend who, instead of firing her, her company asked her to use ChatGPT and increased her work load. Smart managers will augment their workers, unless, of course, the worker was poor-performing to begin with.
Automation should let people work less. Not just give rich people leverage to work us harder. Making people juggle more tasks at once with the AI will just burn them out.
I don't doubt the threat to copy-writing and similar jobs, but I also suspect that the call/response nature of the advertising industry is going to result in people being inoculated to ad-copy written by ChatGPT, and it will start to sound as hokey as old ads you find in computer magazines.
I'd be sad to see her lose her job, but at the same time, I can see how unfulfilling this job must be for her. She often feels that the work she does doesn't matter to anyone.
To me, solution is not to invent more bullshit jobs. We need a better system for humans to share the fruits of millennials of progress together.
I'm seeing government outright banning LLMs from certain industries just to avoid social unrest.
The current model seems to be just like Uber. Get into as many markets as you can. Provide the service below cost. Then jack up the price and make money.
As someone who uses ChatGPT as a learning tool for various programming tasks, I'll miss it if it becomes too expensive. Its a helpful tool, but not worth more than $20/month.
I think finding right people and managing them is pain in the ass
Taking control of $100,000 robots to manufacture does have value at the high-end, but still can't compete with humans at the low end.
I wonder if this can bring some human-friendly Manufacturing back to certain locations.
The environmental impact of outsourcing is incredibly large, making things closer to home with newly freed hands is probably better.
It might also help with the obesity crisis having people spend time sitting 10 hours a day less frequently.
In other words, the new work fill the same time, and we’ll just be doing 10x of it (if we can solve the current challenges with LLMs). The human mind is unsurprisingly adaptable to changing conditions and great at abstract thinking, which is what ironically distinguishes it from these machines.
We also tend to severely underestimate our own abilities and overestimate the importance of the tools.
Even on HN, this is rampant. I wonder, is it because people are so used to interacting with most other humans solely through a chat interface that they perceive ChatGPT as being close to a real AGI, almost indistinguishable from human intelligence?
Ironically, we tend to limit our imagination on what _we_ could do that computers won't, while simultaneously overuse it to imagine what they _could_ do but won't.
One very good example of this is humor - LLM models at present are terrible at generating anything but dad jokes, and are even worse at their attempts to explain "deep" humor. Gary Marcus had a recent episode on it, very interesting insights from top experts in the field: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/can-ai-make-you-laugh/.... They make a case that LLMs were specifically optimized for text generation and not explanation, while humans are almost the opposite.
I believe somewhere in there is also our tendency for confirmation bias and overlooking imperfections where we don't expect some. AI may generate nonsense details, but when we look at the overall text, we don't notice them since we're just awed by the output, and think if it looks flawless it must be flawless. Same thing as with mentalist tricks.
And finally, we only think of our intelligence as thoughts carefully animated into sentences, while there's this whole "iceberg" level of feelings and unconscious cognition, which we don't even notice ourselves, but it would be extremely hard to reproduce in AI and we have not even the slightest idea how.
The problem with robots isn't the physical cost vs a human, it's the task flexibility & cost to program.
This is something that could also theoretically be solved with AI in the (fairly close) future.
Latest generation robotic arms with vision are taking on a greater variety of tasks (e.g. bin/case picking from a mixed tote), more reliably, with a better ability to adaptively recover failed tasks.
The progress here are about not needing parts/items to be in a predictable/consistent location and still understanding how to handle/retrieve them and perform actions on them. This stuff is in sites right now.
Maybe Netflix can be less convenient so Blockbuster won't have such a hard time competing.
Personally Id rather have more people dog sitting and fixing AC units, i.e things that provide actual value.