People say reclined seats cramp their knees. I don't understand that. I'm 6'. The pivot point of the seat back aligns directly with my kneecaps. It makes zero difference at all to my knee space when the seat in front of me reclines. Maybe I have short shins.
I've never asked for permission to recline, nor has anyone asked it of me. This seems fine.
> "The airlines are intentionally selling that space to the person in front of you and to you, so it's just incredibly disingenuous of the airline," he said. "I understand why they like leaning. It's more of an airline issue because they're cramming seats so close together and pitting passengers against each other.”
The button’s there so that passengers buying the ticket feel like they have additional room. And while that’s somewhat true, that passenger is taking space away from the passenger behind.
So there is this shared space, and passengers are left to fend for themselves to determine who has rights to it.
> Then why is the button there? It doesn't make sense for their to be a button that you should never press. I'm not buying it.
I'm of course cheekily quoting you back to yourself, but I'm sure you get the point:)
And then the passenger behind can take that space from the person behind them, etc. I don't see the issue.
I know there are a few rows where the seats can't recline, but it's on the airline to make adjustments to accommodate that.
Then why not leave them all reclined, and not have a button? The only way that everyone has equal space is if everyone agrees to keep their seat in the same position.
I think the point of this article is that the airlines are using the button as marketing, but it has only caused problems not only between customers that don’t agree in which position to use, but also for the flight attendants that have to deal with the resulting drama.
Some people may choose to sit up straight.
I feel like some people are over-optimizing for "every passenger must have equal space at all times."
Perhaps. For me though, not reclining means feeling physically sick. The seat pushes my head forward, which in turn makes me curl forward, compressing my stomach, which makes me feel ... sick.
The worst turbulence has never given me nausea. The seat on an upright position does. Every time.
It also gives me back and shoulder pain.
Some of this can be mitigated by putting a pillow or a folded jumper behind my lower back but it's not good enough. Also, that presses my knees against the seat in front. Which gives me other kinds of pain and discomfort. And eventually makes me feel sick.
Seat design has been largely static while people have gotten bigger, seats have gotten closer, and laptops have become a thing. On cheap European flights, they mostly have removed the buttons. I personally only ever use the button if nobody's behind me.
i always try to get the aisle seat so i can keep my legs in the aisle, and only have to curl up in an awkward position when the cart comes by.
but i do fit in any seat, even frontier, ryanair $50 plane seats, even on 14 hour econo flights by uncomfortably bearing a variety of postures and regular stretching breaks.
that's just life.
The real question is why the airlines have even set up this crazy little psychology experiment. It's probably because many years ago somebody concluded that the value of making the passenger feel like they have the tiniest shred of agency is greater than the cost of unnecessary conflict between passengers. I sure do look forward to pressing that damn button though and I've never gotten in a fight on a plane, so maybe they were right.
The article answers that question. The airlines sold the space twice and shifted the problem to the passengers to fight over it.
The button gives the illusion of comfort, but without mentioning that this comfort comes at the expense of others.
When I don't spread my legs, my knees touch the seat in front. If the person in front tries to recline, they feel resistance, they push more. No move. They slam into the seatback. It hurts me and it doesn't let them recline.
When I spread my legs to avoid the backseat in front, now this is the vicious part... Their seat can recline, but if they lift their armrest, the back of the armrest jams into my knee, with force amplified by leverage. Really painful.
Nowadays on longhaul flights I lean over and apologize ahead, sorry sir/ma'am, if you feel resistance when you recline, it's because your seat is hitting my leg, please don't use force. Some are unhappy. If so I apologize for the inconvenience but I don't control the length of my legs.
Basic courtesy would require you to check that it's safe to recline.
I was on a flight this weekend in economy. In front of me was a man over 6 ft and he could not leave his seat to go to the bathroom because the person in front of him had fully reclined. That person fully reclined because the person in front of her had fully reclined. It was physically impossible for him to contort his body out of the seat.
It isn't on Allegiant, Norwegian and Ryanair seats. They're fixed-position; saves weight, maintenance costs and prevents arguments.