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Comment by lucumo | Hacker News Reader

> Well it's good, and very happy, but seriously, what is going to power Northern Europe in winter?

Wind, onshore and offshore. The North Sea is currently filled up with offshore wind parks. North Sea countries

Hydropower is popular in the Nordics, I believe. With pumped storage that could flatten the seasonal variation.

Overproduction of both wind and solar is also feasible. Winter production of solar is not nothing, it's just less. Scaling up the number of collectors will still get you more production.

Seasonal price fluctuations. Having summer electricity be nearly free can create business opportunities, whereas high winter prices will reduce demand from industrial consumers.

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> Wind, onshore and offshore.

How about when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow?

> Hydropower is popular in the Nordics, I believe.

Popular, but insufficient. Only Norway could ostensibly be run on hydro.

> Overproduction of both wind and solar is also feasible.

But is it economically viable?

> Winter production of solar is not nothing

Yeah, it pretty much is in the Nordics.

> Scaling up the number of collectors will still get you more production.

Nope. Zero times a large number is still zero.

> Having summer electricity be nearly free can create business opportunities, whereas high winter prices will reduce demand from industrial consumers.

Sure, business opportunities for end users. But is it sustainable?

With too much supply renewables make no money and other producers have to make all their money in the winter months.

> How about when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow?

A rarity. Happens for a few hours a year, which can easily be passed with short-term storage.

> With too much supply renewables make no money and other producers have to make all their money in the winter months.

Renewables will have to recoup their investments in the winter, yes. Since it's predictable, it's not a big deal to have seasonality. Make a lot of money in winter to tide you over for the summer. Many industries work like that.

> A rarity. Happens for a few hours a year, which can easily be passed with short-term storage.

It's rather more than a rarity and for periods much longer than a few hours.

Case in point:

"European Wind Turbines at a Standstill Amid an Ongoing “Wind Drought” ... But as of recently, barely even a breeze has made its way through the through the winter air. ... "Britain is in the middle of a wind drought — and the timing couldn't have been worse. For several days now, the U.K. and western Europe have been calm, with barely a breeze," Thomas Moore writes for Sky News. ... Wind speeds in the U.K. have been rather slow recently, and this is impacting the country's ability to utilize wind energy.

According to Yale Environment 360, the phrase "wind drought" is exactly what it sounds like — it refers to an extended period of time that an area lacks wind, or experiences slower-than-usual wind speeds. In 2021, wind speeds were 15 percent slower than in previous years, making for one of the least windy periods in the U.K. in nearly 60 years."

https://www.greenmatters.com/news/wind-drought

> Renewables will have to recoup their investments in the winter

How is solar going to recoup its investment when it produces no power during the winter months?

A 15% reduction in wind isn't the same as "wind don't blow"; it's "we'll need to build out some extra capacity as a buffer".

> How is solar going to recoup its investment when it produces no power during the winter months?

No one's building solar farms above the Arctic Circle.

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