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Comment by ryandrake | Hacker News Reader

Pick up time predictions are garbage, because ride shares allow cancelations. Last time I used a ride share, I had eight drivers accept and then cancel on me. The predicted departure time was always "8 minutes away" and then "looking for another driver" over and over. I probably waited an hour.

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Talking to a driver about this I was told that the platform is always re-routing drivers to maximize revenue for lyft, so when the app says "finding you another driver", it's not the driver that canceled, it's the platform decided that driver was better off, revenue wise, to complete a different fare.

The fact that this is opaque to the end user just means we get mad at the workers and not the corporation, classic.

The fact that OP can see "finding another driver" 8 times suggests that perhaps there is some prioritization system, and OP was low priority - such that if any other request came in before him, then the driver would be re-routed.

Possible that those shitty tips you've been leaving are adding up in other ways? I live in a neighborhood that borders a part of town that is accepted as a "bad" part of town and is often confused as being part of that part of town. I have only ever not had the "finding another driver" twice from my house, and originally assumed it was location location location. I had a guest stay with me last summer, and they never received that treatment which led me to believe it was an account thing. We'd test by requesting a car at the same time. Their rates were cheaper, and they never had a new driver issue.

It would make perfect sense to have some ML model which predicts which customers will be most profitable, and treat those guys well to improve retention amongst that client set.

(Regarding Uber, not Lyft, but...) It would also make perfect sense to predict which customers are investigators in areas Uber is illegal, and avoid them. Which they did [0]. I would be shocked if they weren't giving more profitable customers higher priority and better treatment.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/03/uber-secr...

Forget ML, Lyft can tell if you are a more profitable / more engaged customer through your usage of Lyft Pink, which explicitly offers Priority Pickup. They are transparent about getting you a driver sooner, for cheaper, and I guess the subscription you pay for drives the value.

Uber used to never allow drivers to rate the riders after the tipping was complete. Not sure if that's still the flow.

It's much simpler than that. Drivers accept and then they cancel the ride themselves if they don't like the destination or the earnings. Normally you would penalize those drivers but I imagine with Lyft losing market share they likely can't afford to penalize drivers all that much.

No, drivers don't see the destination until they arrive and the trip begins.

I'm often on one side of the Bay Area trying to get to the other and had many drivers pull up, then cancel or try to get me to cancel when they see I'm going across the Bay.

My assumption was that most drivers are using 3+ different apps, so if they get an Uber request while they're driving a Lyft route they just don't accept it, hence the bouncing around "finding another driver" because all the drivers are already busy

Also, riders are using two or three different apps, so if Uber promises a 2-minute wait and then confirms with a 6-minute wait and Lyft is promising a 3-minute wait, cancel the Uber ride and now that driver is available again.

Doesn’t that incur a cancellation fee?

Usually not in my experience, as long as it’s within a short time (5 minutes?) since booking.

I don't know about lyft but with Uber this depends on the country (gov regulations might force to be transparent with the drivers beforehand).

That's at least not true for Lyft as of October last year. But there are many factors, like other apps, traffic, getting offered something better from another app, etc.

> With upfront pay, drivers can now see ride information and what they’ll earn before accepting a ride. Drivers will have access to trip details including the pickup and drop-off locations, estimated time and distance to complete the ride, and a map view of the full ride in addition to the fare.

https://www.lyft.com/blog/posts/upfront-pay-and-the-next-cha...

It’s especially rich when Lyft gives you this treatment after you’ve selected the more expensive “rapid pickup” option. Nothing hits quite like the tech company gaslighting experience of being told “Just a moment…Just a few more seconds…” for upwards of five minutes by an app eager to discourage you from canceling your $5 extra “three minute pickup.”

> Pick up time predictions are garbage

This boils me to no end. Google Maps estimates often make rideshare look like a timesaver compared to transit, but when you add five, ten, even fifteen minutes to the pickup estimate, it really changes things.

I had a ride from YVR airport where no less than 30 drivers[0] cancelled on me. I would get the notification that the driver was on their way, tap it, and then catch a brief one second flash of the driver before they disappeared and I was back in the queue.

[0]: I’m sure it would be much more, but I gave up and took the train instead

At airports, its often much better to walk just outside the boundary of the airport.

Airports often have special rules, pickup fees, etc. Drivers don't want to pay an $8 fee just to make a loss on your journey. As soon as you're a few yards out of the airport, none of that applies and a driver will be happy to take you.

>its often much better to walk just outside the boundary of the airport

are you serious? what airports do you visit where you can do this as a suggestion without laughing. It's like telling the freshmen that there's a pool on the school roof.

even something as small like a Bob Hope in Burbank would be difficult. Most airports do not consider pedestrian traffic to the edge of their properties. I've done it once at that airport because my office was pretty much next door to the Fry's across the street. still made me regret that decision. I'm now in Dallas and even Lovefield pedestrian traffic past getting to the parking area is non-existent. From DFW? Forget it. Much like your suggestion

Walking out of an airport of any size (and even many/most smaller commercial airports) is between impossible and taking your life in your hands given that sidewalks/crosswalks/etc. are largely lacking. Most commercial airports just don't contemplate pedestrians walking in and out. It might be possible to walk to East Boston from Logan airport though I'm not sure how--and that's an airport that's basically right in the city.

Take a shuttle to car rentals or a hotel, and then you'd be out of the airport area; doesn't have to be a "walk" walk.

Most airports have moved to a centralized rental car location that is still inside the airport perimeter, so not sure how this is helping? The ride share algos are still going to recognize you are at the airport and charge you accordingly

Typically the centralized rental car facility is near or at the airport boundary at airports I’m familiar with.

Logan is one of the easiest. You just take the bus to the MBTA stop or the free silver line into Seaport. The convenient public transportation is the reason I rarely take cabs or rideshare to or from Logan.

Sure. It's convenient to public transit. Really no reason to catch a cab to downtown unless you have a lot of luggage, you're going in or out at a weird time, or home is somewhere inconvenient to public transit. I was responding to literal "walking." (I live outside the city personally and transit doesn't really work.)

There's a sidewalk from Terminal A arrivals that you can take to the Maverick neighborhood and the East Boston Greenway. There was one from Terminal E as well to Wood Island and beyond, but part of it's been closed for a while due to the Terminal E expansion. There's a pedestrian detour through the cell phone lot that'll get you there.

You won't be able to walk to Downtown Boston, obviously, but Logan Airport is theoretically walkable if you're in East Boston. I'd still take the shuttle bus to the Airport T station where you can do the same walk to the greenway.

It is very easy at LAX. You walk about 100 yards across one (admittedly very busy) intersection and get picked up for 1/3 the price. You already have to take a shuttle to even get picked up unless you have a black car, so this adds 5 minutes. It is still annoying if you have luggage.

You could also take a shuttle to a local hotel or car rental, but that is breaking some rules.

What 100 yards are you talking about? Stepping out the doors at any terminal at LAX takes you to the parking lot if you walk 100 yards. To get off of airport grounds would take a much significantly longer walk without any pedestrian walkway

The airport boundary is Sepulveda, which is, admittedly, closer to 300 yards from Terminals 1, 7 and 8.

But there is a pedestrian walkway the entire way. With traffic lights at crosswalks and everything.

I am talking about the walk from LAXit. This is the parking lot where Uber/Lyft/Taxi pickups are, and you generally have to take a shuttle to get there to begin with.

LAXit is on Sepulveda, but it is safer to cross the street to a parking lot. I'll admit I underestimated the distance. It is closer to 300 yards:

https://goo.gl/maps/DWsk4MSx9HuDJAJz5

Since the thread is about YVR, it's actually pretty easy and safe to walk all the way to Richmond (or a shorter distance to the east side of Sea Island which has normal businesses / residences). Sidewalks all the way from the terminal, and no crazy crossings are required. I'm sure this isn't typical, but if you don't mind the walk it's perfectly viable in this case.

You can also take the SkyTrain for free within Sea Island (which is not well known, I feel) - 2 stops to Templeton, and there are probably plenty of Ubers around there, since there is an outlet mall near that station, or at least a much shorter walk into Richmond.

Off the top of my head:

LAX: walking paths and signalized crosswalks get you all the way to the hotels east of Sepulveda, or take the free shuttle to the cell phone lot and order from there.

SJC: Cross the parking garage to the bike path and from there cross the street. Or just walk down the bike path

ORD, MDW: Free shuttle to the rental car facility, or take the L one stop.

MSN: kind of a long walk, but there are sidewalks the whole way

SLC: take the light rail one stop

PSP: dunno why you’d want to walk in the heat, but it’s a short walk on sidewalks to El Cielo Road

Bear in mind: The minimum wage retail staff that run all the stuff in the airport can’t really afford to pay even economy lot parking rates, so basically every large airport has some kind of public transportation if you know how to look for it.

When I fly out of Seatac in the summer I park my motorcycle in the employee parking, which is free. Do other airports not offer cheap/free employee parking?

Employee of what? The airport?

Who do you think?

As opposed to being a pilot or something.

It’s both.

Before they had ridesharing at Midway, I would ride the first hotel shuttle I could get on and request from its parking lot.

> At airports, its often much better to walk just outside the boundary of the airport.

Even easier to use one of the many taxi cabs waiting at the curb right by the terminal.

I don’t understand why I shouldn’t receive a $5 cancellation fee when drivers cancel if they are choking to charge me $5 for cancelling…

I feel like the regular taxi stand is now often much faster (and often cheaper) at many airports as a result of these dynamics

i recently flew to Austin a few times and the turnaround time from airport to destination using waiting taxis was far, far faster. not cheaper though! i have found these Uber/Lyft lots that airports are using now to be a bit of disaster; they have markedly reduced the convenience factor of uber/lyft from airport to destination.

edited for spelling

This is my experience as well, but it's highly dependent on what city you're in.

Do they actually take credit cards nowadays? And do they expect gigantic tips?

I really hate shelling out $60 for a 20 minute taxi ride, then being expected to shell out an extra $20 on top of that and getting endless grief over wanting to use a credit card to top it all off

Every cab I've been in in the last decade has expected that you're paying by card. Many prefer it, because the drivers don't want to carry a bunch of cash. Many cab companies even have apps where you follow the progress of the cab you called, and pay for the ride.

I have no idea what the tip expectation of cab drivers are. I tip the same rate I tip for all traditionally tipped services. I don't actually care whether or not that meets their expectations.

I've known a couple of people who never tip cabbies. Nothing bad happens to them.

> I really hate shelling out $60 for a 20 minute taxi ride, then being expected to shell out an extra $20 on top of that and getting endless grief over wanting to use a credit card to top it all off

Drivers actually comment on your tip amount? And they complain about an extremely generous 33% tip?? I wouldn't use that cab company ever again.

When I was a teen I would tip the driver whatever the change would be to the cash I had on hand. These would be trips between LAX and West Hollywood. Cost like 25-30 bucks? I don't remember.

The only cab I saw that took cards had a thing that would slide across the front and get an impression of the text embossed on the card. I guess that wouldn't work today since cards aren't embossed anymore

Every cab I've been in over the last 10 years or so has had a card reader. Sometimes just Square, sometimes something fancier.

I feel like the ride shares need to commit to firm pricing and pickup times at booking, ride is discounted $1/min for every minute over the estimate.

I wonder if you could penalize for cancellations somehow.

Maybe add a cost to accept a ride, which is waived at pickup.

(I don't know how things work)

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