Former Dolphin team member addresses Steam/Valve’s takedown of Dolphin emulator
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> Whether that's allowed by exception clauses for interoperability, whether that's allowed by some kind of fair use clause, whether Nintendo's broken DRM actually counts as an effective copyright protection measure, etc. -> only a lawsuit could decide that. Your guess is probably as good or as bad as anyone else's.
Sorry no, this is not a "could go either way" situation. There is ample precedence (see: DeCSS) on what counts as "copy protection", and there really is no question that a judge would see the Wii encryption as a copy protection mechanism and hence the DMCA would apply here. The intent that this is meant as a copy protection is what matters, not whether it is broken or not. (Just the messenger - don't shoot me.)
Or another example: There is a lawsuit right now about whether YouTube has legally-protected “technological protection measures,” even though YouTube doesn’t use Widevine, FairPlay, etc. The hope is to get YouTube-DL-Like programs found a violation this way. If the movie industry is seriously embroiled in a lawsuit about whether freaking YouTube has TPMs (and they think they could win), an AES-128 key from Nintendo used for encrypting games is probably a slam dunk.
> In the original post: “whether Nintendo's broken DRM actually counts as an effective copyright protection measure”
Woah, woah, woah. Courts have been clear as daylight that somebody breaking DRM, or the broken status of DRM, has zero effect on legality. DVD has the weakest protection ever (40-bit keys), has been broken since 1999, but the Library of Congress still has their meetings for arguing about what DMCA exceptions to grant for the next three years. And DVD ripping software companies have been sued and lost repeatedly. It’s still a crime to break into a private area secured by a 60-year-old rusted lock.
If copyright expired in a more reasonable timeframe or had more reasonable constraints (like you can't copyright something to prevent its use all together) we'd be better off, i think.
yet it seems more likely ai generated content will be the next step long term, i just can't imagine copyright ever getting weaker as is.
That way, defunct titles fall out of copyright protection automatically, unless someone is there to extend them, and pay the costs associated.
I think a better reform would be simply to limit damages available where a work is not actively being sold/exploited by the current owner to some nominal amount (probably nil for non commercial use) and to repeal the prohibitions on "circumvention".
There just needs to be a system where it’s easy and free to check the extension status of a work. If it’s older than 5 years, and wasn’t registered or extended, then it’s public domain. If it was registered, then the registration website would tell you the expiration date, and when the next renewal date is.
It would be about as hard as checking when a domain expires, which is much easier than the current system. Good luck figuring out who owns the copyright today on a random piece of text published 65 years ago.
And you can donate the money if you find its source unpalatable.
The costs should be tuned so pretty much only Disney would pay the 55-60 year extension for Mickey Mouse related works.
Come to think of it, the comic books that all the big movies are based on, though, they’re all so old that those are the ones that Disney and whoever owns DC will be thinking of while they’re fighting to make sure such a scheme never happens.
I’d structure the system so that Nintendo could probably afford (but it’s be painful) to blanket buy the 5-10 year extension for every title it publishes. But the 10-15 year extension would probably be an existential bet for the company, and the 15-20 year extension for every title they publish would be enough to bankrupt the company.
The fees should be painful enough that you renew specific works that are still economically productive, but impossible to simply renew everything.
Disney and their Vault would change real fast if stuff lost copyright while they hide it.
Same for consoles and games, if I can't buy it any more, it's free to emulate and copy.
Copyright is working as designed. In fact it's weaker in the USA than elsewhere, where it plugs into the broader concept of authors' rights. Because a work reflects on its author's reputation, that author has broad latitude in determining whether and how their work gets presented and distributed. If Disney decides that Song of the South needs to go into the Disney Vault forever, they are within their rights to decide that, per the principle of authors' rights, not just the letter of copyright law.
It's unsurprisingly cheap to be a decade or more behind the gaming bleeding edge.
(I just re-played through Deus Ex, that's two decades...)
> (2) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsections (a)(2) and (b), a person may develop and employ technological means to circumvent a technological measure, or to circumvent protection afforded by a technological measure, in order to enable the identification and analysis under paragraph (1), or for the purpose of enabling interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, if such means are necessary to achieve such interoperability, to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement under this title.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201
Isn't this exactly what Dolphin is doing? Isn't Dolphin an independently created computer program providing PC interoperability with Switch games?
The biggest problem, as they summarize it, is that “Any interoperable program you created as a result of the reverse engineering is non-infringing.”
Aka, your reverse-engineered DVD player software for Linux cannot break TPMs. Your emulator can’t break TPMs. Etc. It only protects breaking TPMs to develop software that does not break TPMs. Surprise, that’s almost useless.
In which case, all it does is say that the Dolphin developers can’t be sued for breaking TPMs to develop Dolphin, at least under the DMCA. But they can still be sued if they distribute any TPM-breaking tools.
They're a game distributor, Nintendo is a massive game publisher. Distributing dolphin would piss Nintendo off.
As much as I'd like it as a user, it makes sense for Valve as a company.
The cost to build/maintain a competent platform is also not cheap even for the big boys like EA.
Otherwise everybody could just use Steam as advertising platform.
Of course I have no idea how contracts for big companies work
They changed their strat abt a decade ago.
If Nintendo ever exit the console market then we can have that conversation about Nintendo IP on Stream. But if that happens, and it is a massive IF, that’s not going to happen for a long time.
[0] - There were other Sega games published in 1995, but the examples I mention are titles specifically developed in house by Sega rather than titles by a 3rd party that they published.
[1] - Politely ignoring that whole NV1 debacle here, since it was in the end a very niche card.
I don't see there being a 0% chance (though admittedly a low one) that they bundle some of their back catalogue with an emulator and release the titles on PC (like Sega on Android/iOS).
If they think the value of those sales would exceed the value added to the switch of eg Mario kart 64 being exclusive, then it'd make sense.
Sony has shown that people are willing to pay $50-60 for games that are a few years old but newly released on PC. See God of War, Horizon, Spider-Man, and I think there were a few more too.
(Again, from the perspective of Nintendo. It'd obviously be great if they released these things on different platforms from a user perspective)
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.dolphinemu...
> In this case, none of this process was followed. To the best of my understanding, this is what happened:
> 1. Valve legal contacted Nintendo of America to ask "hey, what do you think about Dolphin?"
> 2. Nintendo replied to Valve "we think it's bad and also that it violates the DMCA anti-circumvention provisions" (note: nothing about violating copyright itself). Also "please take it down".
> 3. Valve legal takes it down and forwards NoA's reply to the Dolphin Foundation contact address.
edit: I think their note isn't exactly accurate either. As far as I know, the anti-circumvention provisions are a part of DMCA and copyright as a whole. Though, this does not sound like it was a proactive decision by Nintendo, so I am doubtful they have plans to sue the organization behind Dolphin's emulator.
edit 2: Though, the response back to Valve, however it may have occurred, was the following
> Because the Dolphin emulator violates Nintendo’s intellectual property rights, including but not limited to its rights under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA)’s Anti-Circumvention and AntiTrafficking provisions, 17 U.S.C. § 1201, we provide this notice to you of your obligation to remove the offering of the Dolphin emulator from the Steam store
Maybe neither side here wants an answer, but having an answer would seem to make things better.
Seems like a failure to secure your software is not something you could reasonably pursue in court.
[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AACS_encryption_key_controvers...
I saw a few weeks ago some coverage of the first E3 where Nintendo's entire presentation was about the dangers of the internet and software piracy and it was really enlightening and hilarious.
Here's a video with some commentary: https://youtu.be/uMuJWADkMYY?t=1787
You don't agree. Great. But, sadly, the correct forum for that is Congress, not Steam.
Nobody raised an eyebrow with RetroArch, which for me is the proper use for emulation. Software preservation and keeping alive out-of-market systems.
They most certainly would have had liability in this situation. Once informed by Nintendo that they consider Dolphin a circumvention technology, it is highly likely that in any future lawsuit a court would find Valve liable for knowing distributing a circumvention technology.
They would need to comply to the claim if/when filed, but could have passed the bucket to the Dolphin team for any defense while they're off Steam, and let them duke it in court if Nintendo sues.
And also, in my mind, a decryption key is not copyrightable - it's a utility number. Clean room is meant to avoid any doubt of copyright violations, so if this isn't copyrightable then it shouldn't be a problem right?
This is not about copyright, this is about circumventing a copy protection. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number, which is also cited in the above video. Therefore, it also makes no difference from where this number actually comes from, "clean room approach" makes no difference here.
I think this is where DMCA has overreach imho. It's one of the worst pieces of legislations to have been created regarding copyright and intellectual property.
Way back in the early days of emulation, I recall that PS1 emulators (before a workable reverse engineered BIOS was available) would be distributed, but you had to find a bios dump and provide it to the emulator to actually load a game. This helped avoid infringement but of course was a 'hurdle' in getting things running. TBF, it wasn't that bad if you knew how to search right or had a buddy in the scene that knew a good place to download one [0].
On an unrelated note, is it bad that (most of) those early emulation sites seemed less intrusive with popups/adverts than the legitimate news sites of today?
[0] - There was a period where anyone brave enough to distribute a BIOS but allow their page to get indexed by a search engine, stood a good risk of getting a C&D/DMCA.
IF KFC dropped a recipe card and you found it with 5 of the 7 spices and you cracked the final 2, can KFC come after you? How is that any different from Nintendo being sloppy and dropping their decryption key in memory for someone to find?
Say you found all but the last 4 bytes of the key on the ground and you cracked the last 4 yourself? What if Nintendo published the entire key by accident on Github?
What is the point of keeping a private key private if it's illegal to use it if it's not yours? None of it makes sense.
Similar on how ps2 emulators require a bios file
This is all you need to read. If Valve doesn’t want the headache of poking the bear that is Nintendo, they just don’t poke the bear.
For anybody that’s shocked and upset by this, well welcome to the world.
Here's the discussion of the most recent update: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36019485
(Works swell ok Steam Deck though.)
A gaming PC is incomparable on those metrics.
However, most people aren't very Linux savvy and even Linux savvy people will need to deal with the small screen. You can pick between running shell commands or running Flatpak through discover, and I honestly can't tell which one takes longer. Typing commands on the deck sucks despite Valve's best efforts but Discover + Flatpak seems awfully slow for no clear reason whenever I use it.
Installing Dolphin through the controller optimized game interface would be a lot more user friendly. It would also help with Steam's native input UI, allowing the devs to set good presets for their emulators, and it saves having tk manually add a Steam shortcut and setting up the right properties to make the emulator usable from game mode.
I wonder if there will be a rise in controller-friendly alternative stores for steamdeck after this decision.
Or that they’d get an enormous marketing campaign, paid for by Nintendo? (This plan appears to be succeeding)
The legal dubiousness of bundling keys was already well established, emulators for Nintendos other recent systems (3DS/Switch) don't include the keys, and instruct the user to dump them from their own hardware to shield the project from liability (of course the keys can easily be found online, but the projects don't endorse that out of abundance of caution).
I think people should just share roms with the encryption pre-removed and that's would be the end of the legal reach for Nintendo here.
Not sure why we still reproduce undesirable code from the console.
In another timeline where the Wii was jailbroken earlier the standard might have been to distribute decrypted versions, but that's not how it worked out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists
whoops wrong link but fuck it, serendipity
Maybe retroarch itself doesn't emulate anything, but just provide a render surface/input abstraction to 'cores'?