Hacker News Reader

Comment by eitally | Hacker News Reader

Google had a feature within the Home app that allowed users to change the volume of groups of speakers simultaneously, which infringed on a Sonos patent.

View on HN

Man I really dislike Google but this is not patent worthy. Sorry Sonos. I hope Google wins an appeal.

Actually, it's very tricky to get to this to work, and even Sonos struggles to change volume simultaneously when you have 4+ speakers. WiFi is a big pain.

Why don't you tell us why it is tricky?

So? Google figured it out. The parents doesn't explain the tricky way to do it.

Maybe it is tricky, considering that Sonos can’t even get the volume adjustment of a single speaker to work, but unless they used specific technology/code developed by Sonos, how is affecting several volume controls/levels simultaneously at relative rates using rather basic math patentable to you?

Sure, maybe the rotten patent system allows it and the rotten court system validates the corruption, but that won’t change if people keep just referring to the corrupt methods implored. And I’m no fan of these corporations that are way too big and way too despotic.

Google had a feature within the Home app that allowed users to change the volume of groups of speakers simultaneously, which infringed on a Sonos patent.

Apple has this with its HomePods. I wonder if Apple did it the legal way, or is just next in line for a lawsuit.

Wow. What a patent-worthy invention that is far from non-obvious.

I mean, considering it was patented in 2004, you know one year after 802.11g came into the world...I kinda think yeah it's ok?

The patent expires in less than a year for context of how old it is.

How is that a patent… wtf… I hope Google appeals and gets the patent thrown out.

It might be the mechanism rather than the outcome? It is hard to say anything in these cases without doing patent lawyer work.

615, [1] 033, [2] 885, [3] and 966. [4] These were the patents listed in the case [5] if you want to quickly look at them. I am just linking them to save someone else from having to search for how to find them. The jury decided on 885 and 966. [6]

The quote below is from the source for [5]

> Whereas the '615 and '033 patents cover technology related to transferring playback between devices, i.e., “casting,” the '885 and '966 patents cover technology related to managing groups of smart speakers.

> Pursuant to “patent showdown” procedure, each side has already moved for summary judgment on a single claim. Separate orders granted summary judgment in favor of Google on invalidity of claim 13 of the '615 patent and in favor of Sonos on infringement of claim 1 of the '885 patent. Sonos has since withdrawn its remaining claims based on the '615 patent, and Google has since begun developing and deploying a purported design-around for the '885 and '966 patents. Claims and defenses related to the '033, '885, and '966 patents are now set for trial starting May 8, 2023

[1] https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloa...

[2] https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloa...

[3] https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloa...

[4] https://image-ppubs.uspto.gov/dirsearch-public/print/downloa...

[5] https://casetext.com/case/sonos-inc-v-google-llc-7

[6] https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/egpbyxmqdvq/...

Was this lawsuit also about the now-removed feature where you could use your phone to change the volume while casting? Or was that separate?

Huh, did they patent a feature, or the implementation of that feature?

An implementation that keeps all of the volume levels in sync. I'm not convinced its more complicated than 2-phase commit, but that's kind of what you need in a distributed system.

Another idea: if you've already done the hard work of fanning out a synchronized audio stream to multiple speakers, you don't need any distributed logic to manipulate the audio stream itself. So just encode the volume change directly into the stream before fanning it out. I hope the Sonos lawyers don't come after me for this.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com