Germans Rebel Against Gas Boiler Ban | Hacker News Reader

Germans Rebel Against Gas Boiler Ban

ft.com

13 pointsbelter35 comments

If only Germany had invested in a long-lasting, baseload power generation system that produces no CO₂ emissions and involves splitting atoms…

The requirement says 65% renewables, is nuclear power considered a renewable too?

FYI, Germany shut down all its nuclear power. It's not really a meaningful differentiation at this point.

Why renewables and not low carbon?

Yes, but so is all electricity, because the law only considers local emissions. This might seem counterproductive given how coal heavy the German grid is, but unless customers are able to produce 65% of their required energy via solar panels, which is really tough in the winter, it would be basically impossible to comply with that law. Decarbonizing the grid is of course the aim of other policies, but given how large parts of German media and basically all but the Green party seem to be focused on actively or quietly obstructing any effective climate action.

Too risky for the environment they said, so they switched to Russian gas.

If only you would understand the context better.

Germany was not allowed to do nuclear after WW2.

German then took the Three Mile Island accident much more serious.

And later in the 80 there was tchernobyl. Even today you need to check some meat you hunted from the Bavarian forest against radiation.

Tchernobyl is part of Germans history too.

Germany has double the density of France which makes nuclear even harder to do.

I really hate comments like yours, simplifying complex things like this makes it out that we are just too stupid for nuclear... No there are reasons

It isn't complex. Germany's behavior is pure phobia. Japan has an even higher population density than Germany and is still pursuing nuclear. The simply fact is, nuclear is among the safest energy source possible. With modern safety standards and Germany's lack of plate tectonics, it is basically impossible for a serious nuclear event to occur in Germany.

Ah so it's pure phobia. Interesting.

So you checked all reasons and concluded that's it?

What studies did you consult?

And even if it's 'only' phobia wouldn't it also be a problem of politics and education then?

And while I don't necessarily against nuclear, I do really believe that every investment in nuclear would be much more beneficial towards wind, solar, geo, power lines and energy storage.

Why?

Makes people more independent and therefore the country better equipped for catastrophies. It creates synergies with all other energy storage problems like ev's, laptops and smartphones.

It makes people more energy aware.

The investment will push prices down for everyone including 3th world countries.

Less risk for dirty bomb material.

No long term storage problem.

Less dependencies to other countries because Uran etc doesn't exist everywhere while the other materials are much easier to get globally.

Also castor Transports are super expensive and the whole supply chain too due to terrorism risk and health risk.

I also have worked with plenty of people in my life, the assumption that people are always able to handle dangerous materials which are not visible harmful feels stupid.

Since science has clearly found nuclear to be one of the safest energy sources possible, it is phobia. Literally no German has ever died from one of its own nuclear reactor.

None of those issues are as big as the challenges of climate change. Nuclear waste can be buried or reprocessed, supply chain problems are much smaller than dependency on Russia oil & gas, and Germany is much more at risk from Russia aggression than the very remote chance that anything they do with nuclear could be turned into a weapon against them.

> Germany was not allowed to do nuclear after WW2.

How does that matter today?

> Germany has double the density of France which makes nuclear even harder to do.

Yes, same is true for any other source of energy.

It matters because it's part of our history in regards of awareness to the technology and research and development which we lacked timewise and human resources wise. People in the 60 potentially worked less on these topics in Germany than in France.

The density is relevant in point of risk.

It's easier to find empty spots in France or more very rural ones than in Germany.

Also additional to this, France is more centralized to Paris.

I really hate comments like yours, trying to justify bad decisions instead of admitting you're wrong.

Of course there are reasons, they are just not good ones. They were bad then, and disastrously bad now in light of the climate change threat.

You really need to read and understand my point.

I didn't say that this is or not is a good position we are in and if it would be better or worse if we had more/much more nuclear.

The main point was that extrem simplified 'suggestions/comments' like this add 0 value. .

And your last sentence is just captain hindsight visiting...

Explain Japan.

I made my point: simplification like ops comment is shitty and there is more behind it than just 'we are stupid'.

Japan: controlled from the top. Criticism is not culturally appropriate.

For example in Japan there are not really stand up comedians who criticis other people due to culture.

This implies than it's much easier to do nuclear again independent of what the people of Japan want or not want.

> This implies than it's much easier to do nuclear again independent of what the people of Japan want or not want.

Oh excuse me, I didn’t realize you’re a populist.

Popular opinion has been in favor of nuclear since the war.

Yeah, amazing why countries didn’t invest in a source of energy that was, is, and likely will be the most expensive and only gets more expensive with time. Really amazing why no one did that.

3..2..1.. Get ready for dozens of comments from Americans who for some reason have very strong opinions on German nuclear policy, even though it has nothing to do with article

Seems like americans are the only ones able to speak up as everyone else in europe needs to shut up or face sanctions.

I don’t think this generalization carries your point.

Do you live in Europe? Are you aware of the numerous opinions on this matter in Europe?

If you did, your comment would have more nuance.

Are you threatening to turn off my power again, Hans?

https://archive.is/AIxu1

To be fair, Germans have themselves to blame for decades of horrible energy politics.

Now they are in panic mode. Can't really say I feel sorry for them.

Excluding the closure of nuclear power stations, what do you consider bad about the German energy policy?

lignite?

Germany has a long history of poor energy source choices (polluting cars, coal use, reliance on highly polluting energy sources from russia - fortunately this ended but only after strong-arming, not willingly). I understand it’s position as an energy poor country but it needs to change course, which i am sure it will.

OTOH, Germany managed to push solar and wind early, too. Sadly, "Klimakanzlerin"[1] Merkel's governments managed to undo a lot of investment through bad legislation, which led to many companies in the green energy sector failing - effectively moving that industry to China.

[1]: She was unironically called that in 2007, after not much more than a few nice words and taking some photographs in Ilulissat, Greenland - yes, press failure was a thing back then, too.

Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Closure of nuclear power while refusing the deploy wind power because NIMBY.

I am actually surprised they are not actively trying to stop people having "balkonkraftwerk".

Oh there is at least when you are part of a house.

My old co owners did not like my proposal for allowing it.

It's just that now (and I'm surprised actually) the law will come.

I'm not sure if it is too small of an real issue for the old people or only them care about the optics of non architectural relevant buildings

Reliance on coal & gas. High energy costs. Residential rates subsidizing industrial.

Americas is much better because when it goes bad they just invade Iraq or JB flies over and shakes hands with murderers to get the good stuff?

> It is just that to install one he would have to knock down his house and build a new one.

Maybe we should focus on making that process easier.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com