Layoffs push down scores on Glassdoor – how companies respond
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I immediately go to the 1 and 2 stars, and read all the negative reviews. I then look for trends in those negatives.
If I see no real trend, and instead people being dumb, I ignore them. If I see distinct trends of faulty thing, or fails to perform, then I know to avoid.
I assume (well, rightfully so) that any 4's and 5's are gamified and or just outright fraudulent. Companies who run these review sections are directly complicit, and usually rely on these ratings to "make the sale" or otherwise hold mind share.
There's not much we can do here. Just hope we hit jackpot on the employer lottery.
As someone who's worked at a 100k+ employees company, there were literally dozens of programs in the same building living largely separate/parallel existences. Unless the reviews called out a program/manager by name they'd be completely useless in gauging job satisfaction.
And some specific managers who would be better not leading people (aka fired) are a weird case where the in-person interview can kind of discern that. Basically, one has to learn what to ask and how to ask to suss out which team leads are good and which ones aren't. Then again, it's a definite problem where you are in an org can make or break you.
However, we have to separate "shitty manager" from "shitty organization forcing managers to enact shitty policies". And this is where I think Glassdoor 1 and 2 star reviews can show policy trends (versus bad manager trends).
And of course, you may get a company that avoids most of the reviews in scummy ways. I know that the company I worked for that got bought out had a clause they wanted us to sign that stated "no negative comments about us anywhere". What's funny is this is actually illegal under the NLRB. But to me this was a massive red flag to get the hell out (and I did).
Culture starts at the top.
2. Ask "What do you like about working here?". If there's pushback or defensiveness, red flag.
3. Ask "If you were in my position, would you take this job?". Would they gladly take this job, or is there hesitation/defiance/pushback?
4. Ask "What does your organization know and believe about psychological safety?" - This is an institutional question about https://hbr.org/2023/02/what-is-psychological-safety
5. Ask "What are your values and how do you hold people accountable to live them?" (Does the org follow their own guidance, or is it just for show?)
6. Ask "What happens to employees who make mistakes?" - is this a 1 and done? This also pairs with psychological safety.
7. Ask "What happens to employees when they challenge the status quo?" (As an engineer or similar lead technological role, you will be continually pushing tech. How does the company respond to that?)
8. And for you to ask yourself: "Is the interview conversational or scripted?"
9. Was the interview genuine happiness, or faked? Would the people you would work with actually happy what they're doing?
10. How do you feel after the interview? Is there something that felt off? Can you identify it?
That's not a good question because it assumes the other person if familiar with the jargon term "psychological safety," which seems pretty new. That's not reasonable because that recent HBR article you posted indicates that many people don't know what that term means.
Also "psychological safety" could be easily misinterpreted in today's political environment as something related a demand for an (ideologically) "safe space."
After skimming that article, it would probably be better to ask something along the lines of "is it OK to make mistakes in this organization and learn from them?"
Prepared questions indicate you have initiative and do your homework. I'm hiring thinkers, not drones.
The only turn-off could be in the way they asked the questions and followed up -- aggressive? Not listening to my response closely? Not clarifying if I asked for more information?
An interview is supposed to be a bidirectional conversation to see if you fit with the manager/company and the company fits with you. Obviously, how you ask (and don't ask), and ask around these questions can really give an idea what to expect.
There's also major red flags for places that you probably never want to work at. For example, dismissive managers are a major problem. What are they going through on a day-to-day? They probably can't tell you, but you can ask around them.
Why are they interviewing? Is it a new position, or a replacement? Why did the replacement leave? I had one interview that the person leaving was also on the interview committee. Really nice gentleman. He was retiring, and wanted to move back with family across the US. And he was on the committee to help find a person and train them to be there. The job wasn't exactly what I was looking for and declined, but I greatly respected how they did that interview.
Again, I interview primarily for engineering roles. Maybe other non-engineering roles do things differently. But I like to try to get a snapshot what the company's like, their expectations, my expectations, and how my life is working there. Last thing I want to do is accept a position and find out they grossly misrepresented the position to get me in the door, and make it hard to interview/switch to get out.
An organization that is aligned with the communications patterns outlined in those questions would answer those questions comfortably.
So, it can actually still be a useful candidate side filter. If you don’t hire me because I asked these questions, that’s good for me because I don’t want to work for you (not in an accusatory manner, just we probably don’t have compatible workplace expectations).
I gave a list of types of questions I use to try to discern the manager and the company's perspective. Obviously these aren't to be utilized rapid-fire in a dismissive attitude. However, that's exactly how companies approach interviews. Why isn't it good for me to do the same that's being done to me?
> if you asked me a couple of those questions (especially back-to-back) during an interview, I would not hire you.
(The personal response) And there's no way I'd want to work with or for you with that kind of "you ask too many questions" attitude.
> It isn't that any of those are bad questions per se, but the volume and forwardness of them would be a red-flag that this is a person who likes to show up, make trouble, and not be held accountable for it.
I've also been in workplaces that fired after one fuck-up that was due to miscommunication, bad documentation, or other 3rd party factors. I'm not normally accustomed to making mistakes in my professional area, but they do happen. "How are failures and changes handles in your org?" is a massive key indicator of how this org maintains and grows, and I along with it.
And as an engineer, I get *paid* to ask questions, including those pointed ones that get to the root of a matter. And I apply those skills and abilities to interview processes as I would to any other process. To see a hiring manager dismiss this type of interactive discussion as "someone who makes trouble", is the very type of manager I recommend to be fired on my reviews.
> Maybe that's not your goal, but remember that in an interview you only have a few minutes to communicate where you're coming from.
And the implied contextural clues you typed here indicates that it's the interviewer's to ask the questions, and the candidate to shut up unless spoken to, except for a softball one-off question at the end.
Interviews are a 2 way street. You're interviewing me, and I'm ALSO interviewing you. My questions I ask that probe to a company culture and happiness of the interviewers is of utmost importance. I've turned down higher-paying higher-stress jobs precisely because people on the team balked at work-life balance questions.
Another company had a manager roll their eyes when I asked if they would work the position they were hiring for. Just what exactly did I dodge by discontinuing the interview?
One company blatantly stated that "full time ie expected to be 50 hours minimum" when I asked how maintenances were handled with scheduling. And they're a BIG vehicle company. 6 sigma, ISO 20000, yadda yadda. Absoluutely no life balance, and the interviewing manager made that known.
I've dodged a LOT of crap companies with these sorts of questions. Yours sounds like one as well, with your response.
No offense.
Answering "no" could easily land me in hot water, regardless of my reasons, and especially if I don't explain them very clearly and objectively. Answering "yes" doesn't tell you anything; after all, I already work here and might have drunk the company kool-aide.
It just seems like you're looking for a reason to not work here, instead of looking for reasons to be excited about working here. Walking in the door with a negative attitude is a good way to poison a team's working environment. You are, in effect, the very toxic thing you are trying to reveal.
Maybe it's just cultural differences, but I cannot imagine a reason to ask that question of anyone other than someone who I trust and know well.
Organizations that aren't scripted just haven't gotten there yet.
Glassdoor is simply compromised by money and can't be trusted whatsoever.
[UPDATE: hedora already said archive.org does this earlier https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36084679]
This is my approach as well. Probably my favorite moment was reading a review for my own company. It was very recent and mentioned that "management had stupid delusions of being acquired by company X." That review was posted literally days before the acquisition was publicly announced.
I think the lesson here is to ignore the overall average and to read subjective stuff and look for patterns.
Qualitative trends are the interesting thing, not the quantitative result.
Glassdoor could also account for these in its overall rankings, and show a graph plotting number of removals against time. That way companies legitimately removing invalid reviews can continue to do so, but those gaming the system would have that activity show up. If they plotted submitted reviews as well you could see when these periods of mass removals and "forced" positive reviews happened.
Glassdoor could also provide a short summary of "X reviews removed in the last Y days - this is lower/higher/inline with the average".
All of this is easily within the power of Glassdoor to do and keeps the platform fair for both parties.
Maybe it sounds cynical, but that is the business model.
Another aspect of it is to refer/resell self-hosting for users to completely own their own data (such as Bunny CDN which has very wallet-friendly prepaid schemes and a referral program) so they don't have to worry about what the service owner does. It would then be a kind of decentralized network of mini Glassdoors about the workers current or past employers, where one worker would spin it up and their peers can use. Each would decide what to leave public-facing and private-facing for the workers, and could even monetize for the workers via selling their data as Glassdoor does for things like market comp survey data so that workers could privately share comp data amongst each other and publicly sell access to extra anonymized summaries of that data.
This would be tied together into a user friendly iOS/macOS app to manage the deployment of the site. How does that sound?
Why? Providing a web client would drastically expand your potential customer-base.
It's also potentially linux-runnable (the management tools) with a native apple frontend, then later can explore bringing to win/web
I've been moving more of my iOS app core biz logic to JS and exploring cross plat Swift for running more across web and windows, while still leaning hard into the nice parts of Apple ecosystem, so that whatever solution I find for this is easier
We're also doing an app using https://github.com/live-codes/livecodes to move a lot more languages/envs capability into the client which might enable some good web and ios cross plat capabilities.
Anyway besides the platform question, interested in any other feedback from anyone
Complete shambles
https://web.archive.org/web/20200625025452/https://www.glass...
(Hey, I wonder why twitter's CEO rating in 2023 is almost 100%-(rating in 2020))
I wonder if their scraper goes deep enough to let a third party list compute a list of removed reviews. Honestly, that seems like better signal than the non-reviewed reviews at this point.
Glassdoor wants to make that group happy so they can keep making money
If Glassdoor's real customers are companies using it for hiring then that's who they will prioritise unless that becomes an existential threat to their reputation.
‘In my opinion the New York Times is a pile of lying garbage’ or whatever for instance isn’t libel.
Honestly I’m not sure how many negative posts could reasonably be considered libel, but for those that genuinely could be, Glassdoor is probably better served by just removing them than wading into liability both from posting and from modifying them.
I don’t see how Glassdoor would have any liability unless they were somehow presenting it as their own opinion.
They might want to take it down as part of overall community moderation if it violates their TOS of course, say if it includes cursing, or has racist remarks or whatever.
I’m pointing out libel has a definition, and posting what is clearly an opinion isn’t it. It has to be making statements which are presenting false facts as true.
That they’ll almost certainly find ways to take down ‘undesired’ messages that paying customers don’t like seems like something they do, which is shitty and undermines their nominal reason for existing, is… sad but seems to be what is going on. Nothing to do with libel.
* Company tells Glassdoor the review is false and to take it down
* Glassdoor says the review is from an anonymous user and not them, so they should sue the user * Company asks for the name of the user so they can sue them for libel.
* Glassdoor refuses to turn over the user because it ruins the anonymity
* Company sues Glassdoor for libel because they refuse to produce proof they didn't create the libel. Glassdoor now has to face the lawsuit or turn over the user and destroy the anonymous premise of their website thats fundamental to their business model
Stating ‘x killed y’, even if I wholeheartedly believe it is libel if it turns out someone else killed y, and x had reputational damage due to my statement. I’m asserting something is true, full stop.
Stating ‘in my opinion, x killed y’, if I wholeheartedly believe it, is not libel, even in the same situation, because even if x did not kill y, it is still true it was my opinion that it was true, and I was being clear about that. I wasn’t asserting facts, I was asserting my opinion. Opinions are protected, as long as they can’t be confused with false assertions of facts.
Now, if it turns out there is evidence that I didn’t actually have that opinion and it was all a game to destroy x’s reputation, I might still get hit.
It’s the same reason ‘allegedly’ gets used by the press so much when someone gets arrested.
Regardless of what the courts find later, it was indeed alleged. And that matters if someone tries to come after them later. Which happens.
The news sells itself as making factual reports (except for ‘entertainment’ or ‘editorial’ sections), and can’t get away with saying it’s all just an opinion.
If you have pointers to case law that disagrees, I’d much appreciate it!
“You believe everything you say is true, but your beliefs do not make something true,” Gamble said. “That is that is what we’re doing here. Just because you claim to think something is true does not make it true. It does not protect you. It is not allowed. You’re under oath. That means things must actually be true when you say them.”
Quoted here and elsewhere: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/alex-jones...
I'm not a lawyer and don't know American libel law so I can't speak to that. I will say there's a big difference between using "allegedly" and "believe". Belief in what you say being your opinion is implicit (unless, of course, you're lying). You have no access to facts outside your opinion. It's the nature of your statement which indicates whether it's a statement of fact or opinion, not whether you say "in your opinion" or not. "Allegedly" has a very different purpose; it imputes the statement of fact to someone else. Someone else has stated (in their opinion) a fact; they alleged it. Rather than qualifying a statement as a belief, it qualifies it as the truth of it being someone else's responsibility.
Alex Jones didn't say 'In my opinion sandy hook blah blah blah'. He said 'Sandy hook blah blah blah'. He presented those things he was saying as facts, not as something that was 'just his opinion'. Under oath it's a similar rule, but does allow more leeway regarding the persons knowledge. [https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...]
And what the Judge is telling him, if you do that, it doesn't matter if you think they're true or not, what matters is if they are actually true. Or at least under oath, it's plausible they he believes they are actually true and it's not all delusions or whatever.
Especially if you're saying them in a large venue, with real impact on real people.
Actual truth is an absolute defense for libel in the US. If what you're saying is true, you are not committing libel. Period. even if you think it's actually false when you're saying it
Thinking something is true if it is actually false is not enough in 99% of cases, assuming it is being presented as a fact and not an opinion (which requires no verification and is generally protected from libel in the US).
There is a bit of an escape clause, which is libel generally also requires that the false statements were made with some degree of recklessness, negligence, or maliciousness.
As in, they were not only false, but the person saying them also didn't do the basic amount of checking appropriate in the circumstance to avoid harm before saying them.
Like if someone goes on TV and says 'OJ died today, he was murdered by John Smith' and they never bothered to verify it and just overheard a hallway conversation or whatever. John Smith, and probably OJ would have pretty solid libel cases.
If someone did check and got it confirmed, say with OJ's agent, or the appropriate law enforcement authority, they'd generally get a pass, as they weren't reckless or malicious. It was an honest mistake based on information that should have been sufficient to determine if the fact was true or not. The law enforcement authority or agent might be in trouble though.
Completely unverifiable and easy to fake.
Indeed -- assuming that Glassdoor actually wants to be "fair" and informative, in some meaningful sense.
Unfortunately its business model stands in the way of that.
I have a speech impairment. About six years ago a company's HR communicated to me that they couldn't hire me due to my impairment. I indicated this to the company's social media, which wasn't active. But I also wanted people to know before they interviewed with the company. So, I wrote a review on Glassdoor. Couple of months later all my other "contributions" were up on the site except this one. So much for companies cannot manipulate reviews.
If you need feedback it is better to reach out to people on Linkedin and talk instead.
I don't know the details about the "premier program", like what it was specifically called, but the negative review did magically disappear. Also, everything said in the negative review was totally true.
IMO, for companies that publish ratings like Glassdoor/Yelp/Airbnb, it should be outright illegal to remove negative reviews without very good reason. (Lies, spam, etc.)
If an industry makes a lot of money (f’rinstance, the finance industry), all kinds of toxic, illegal behavior is ignored, and it’s really difficult to effect change.
In industries that don’t make much money (teaching, social work, etc.), bad behavior is not tolerated in the slightest.
Oddly, this is not quite true at the US federal level. Unlike most protected categories, the one for age only applies to a specific subset of people (people over 40 years old), nor is it generally illegal to prefer an older candidate over a younger one [1].
Ah, well, it's all water under the bridge. After a few of these hazin- er, interviews, I got the message, and accepted that I'm in early retirement, and I work for free, these days.
Various political offices have an age requirement, like 35 for the president. Not sure how relevant it is though.
> In industries that don’t make much money (teaching, social work, etc.), bad behavior is not tolerated in the slightest
This falls apart outside of your examples. The health care industry makes a lot of money. They don't tolerate this. Teaching in primary education? It doesn't make much money, but higher education? They do well, and they also don't tolerate this. The legal industry? Probably doesn't tolerate this. Etc..
I know quite a few, and none of them make a fraction of what they could, outside academia. Some, are, quite literally, on public assistance, with Ph.Ds.
The healthcare industry is rife with bad behavior. Their practice is restricted, but their behavior ... not so much.
Same with lawyers. They have very intense ethics laws, but they are about the practice, not the personal behavior.
But you are correct. It is a "broad brush," and not really a worthy argument.
I've been involved in a lot of hiring and I have zero doubt that you were subject to ageism. It's odd to me that discrimination based on age is somehow ok.
Not only that, what the fuck are you trying to prevent by doing so? Experienced candidates?
I think the number one issue, that people keep forgetting, is that younger folks are fearfully insecure. I certainly was.
Even when we project great confidence, we still know, in our hearts, that we're whistling past the graveyard. It's really bravado, meant to help us feel better about ourselves.
As we get older, that particular insecurity starts to dissipate. It might get replaced by cynicism and fatalism, or fear about personal security, but the idea that we aren't "good enough," tends to lose steam. We become fairly aware of what we can (and, even more importantly -can't) do, and can often see the mistakes before they have a chance to metastasize.
Insecure folks don't want to be around people that remind them of their frailty; even if it costs them. That insecurity is painful. We may be very intelligent, well-educated, and creative, but we haven't had the forge of experience, and the infused carbon, to create the steel. We're still running on raw pig iron.
The other issue, is the "cargo cult" belief that younger folks can do the impossible, because they haven't had bitter, cynical "olds" tell them that it's impossible. That sounds silly, but I've actually heard exactly that, from a number of intelligent, well-educated people. It's a compelling myth, and many folks buy into it; hook, line, and sinker.
Basically, Wile. E. Coyote doesn't fall, until he looks down. If you don't have people around, that yell "Look down!", then you can fly.
And, finally, we all remember when we were "free," and didn't have things "weighing us down," like families and other obligations. We assume that we will always be able to remain completely self-absorbed, mobile, and somewhat hedonistic. "Digital Nomads" don't deal so well with families. I was raised by a pair of high-functioning Peter Pans, and can report that it's hard on the kids.
As long as the older folks had the power and the money, the younger folks were forced to work with them (and grow through their insecurities). However, if younger folks have the power and the money, they can prevent older folks from participating.
I see many reviews that are complete positive BS and are aimed at increasing the company's score, either to offset previous bad reviews, or because the company is hiring and wants to look good.
I would not say that this is "smart"... You might get people to accept offers but if the work environment is bad they'll leave so the end result is just to increase turnover and to trash the company's reputation (which will make hiring more difficult).
IMHO companies should forget about Glassdoor reviews and focus on the actual work environment. But of course the reality is that the Glassdoor score is a nice, simple metric that HR can boast about improving... so that's what happens, instead.
They can kick the can down the road and make money.
IBM coasted on its reputation for decades and even now it's a big company and still respected in many arenas.
Reputational damage is hyper overrated.
The average individual doesn't have the time or inclination to do research.
I took the time to do research on the companies I interviewed with, but the reviews on sites like Glassdoor are completely untrustworthy.
Virtually every company had reviews which praised them to the moon, and reviews that said they were a company from hell. Which to believe?
This is probably true for small-to-medium sized purchases, but for hiring? I suspect people are much more inclined to do their research when they're about to trust their livelihood to a company, especially in fields where they have other options.
And then people are back to judging the financial offers and their own gut based on the interview, I imagine.
The information asymmetry is massive between companies and employees.
The bad reviews show the failure modes of the company.
I could find no way to tell the real from the fake. Anyone can write anything.
You just read a bunch, and see if they are random, or if there is a pattern where many have something in common.
If 70% of the negative reviews say anything at all about aimless priorities and never being allowed to finish a job properly before being moved to the next thing, that company definitely has that specific kind of problem.
The number of folks who can meet that bar are very, very low.
One I did get to stick was the car dealership that tried to scam me into ~$1k in unneeded fluid changes, where I posted the exact times, amounts, and a photo of the written quote (with quote #) they gave me after I demanded it in writing - in the middle of their public showroom where they couldn’t try to avoid it.
It’s a jungle out there, and yes the review sites are a problem too.
the police are also not very helpful either in many cases. I had someone at Bestbuy steal a VERY expensive TV from me (I ordered it for pickup, but when I got there a few hours later it had ‘already been picked up’ - and definitely not by me), and got clear self serving bullshit from the store manager, including ‘we’ll call the police, you don’t need to do it’ - which they didn’t - and went home.
When I called the police later, they required me to drive there (the store was an hour away), and wait for awhile before they’d even dispatch anyone to even take a report, let alone do anything. So figure several hours, just to get a report in.
This was solid felony territory too.
I couldn’t charge back on the card without a police report during a specific time window (30 days). Filing it after that might have resulted in some action, but I wouldn’t likely get my money back.
I suspect it was the store manager, and I wasn’t the first one. But I had no real evidence, just a pattern of shifty behavior and lies.
They’d conveniently avoided having cameras in the areas to document what actually happened, and my pickup code had been used to pick it up, so definitely an inside job. I had video evidence I was at home when the supposed pickup happened, but that was it.
So the thief won.
Hard to not get greedy though at some point.
In hindsight/next time, I’d just call the police right then and there the moment I heard them say someone else picked it up. Listening to them after that or letting them give me the run around just wore me out and let me be convinced that I wasn’t somehow having a felony committed against me right there.
Also, not letting the personal issue escalate to where it was that bad would have let me do that much, much easier. But that is much easier said than done.
Lessons learned!
Consider the proportion of GD's revenue from employer premium subscriptions vs from jobseekers (job listings, profile views). When there's lots of hiring, the jobseeker-related revenue will prevent the worst excesses. But in a downturn, there's less disincentive to not live off charging employers premium for reputation-washing.
[It's not easy running a for-profit technical jobs board, let alone doing it ethically and delivering growth; StackOverflow Jobs was sadly killed off in 2022. One of SO Jobs's innovations (other than almost zero on-site advertising) was it allowed you directly interact with the hiring mgrs, so you'd skip days/weeks of non-technical preliminary interviews.]
Like the Amazon reviews talking about a bicycle when the produce someone is looking at is a random usb stick.
And if a competitor targeted someone, the Glassdoor reviews should be subpeonable, and there is a legal framework for extracting compensation in that case. Takes a lot of time and effort though.
https://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-ride-r...
Besides, Uber’s attack on Lyft there was direct. The idea that someone would poison Glassdoor reviews if a competitor in the hopes of making it harder to hire good people who looked at Glassdoor, in the hopes that not having those particular people would weaken the competitor in the long run… it’s risible.
Aside, I think your post highlights why commenting on the internet is so painful. All I‘ve done is highlight a factual anecdote w/ attribution, without speaking negatively of anyone, and you saw it necessary to denigrate my intelligence.
I think your point about Glassdoor reviews vs. rideshare cancellations works fine without the accompanying commentary.
A good metrics is # of reviews versus # of employees.
You'll see some companies with such high numbers, that somehow 10% of current employees have left glowing reviews. Digging deeper they are mostly "less than 1 year" and terse "good company" type reviews.
"I am in good health and have been well treated and fed since my abduction"
I make sure to watch for blinked messages, like T-O-R-T-U-R-E
Some of the practices described in the article are simply fraud or gagging. Where that kind of behaviour is not explicitly illegal already it probably should be. Preventing employees from giving honest and factually correct feedback about their employers is almost never in the public interest. That's not even an anti-business position because preventing fair criticism of bad employers is also against the interests of other employers who don't do those bad things.
Interesting how HR departments and managers resort to gestapo tactics instead of fixing the root of their problems, which is typically poor management.
Side effect - prospective employees will no longer trust glassdoor reviews. That will likely hurt their business model.
It's similar to yelp or any review based app.
there is a constant influx of ppl that don't know yet [0]
To say Glassdoor is a good candidate for disruption is not the same thing as saying they have some problems. Every product has some problems.
tbf it would probably suffice to have that information somewhere
- How do you verify that the reviews are actually from current/former employees?
- Can the data be open for the public to verify while protecting the people leaving reviews?
- How could the service get funding? Donation model?
- How would you overcome the initial issues with trust?
- How do you prevent companies from manipulating the scores/reviews?
- How do you handle legal challenges if you're based on something like a donation model? Companies would surely sue you at one point or another if they cannot take down reviews themselves
People who write review would have to upload recent pay slip or after when committing review provide their email at employee to receive some passcode active within 2 months
>- Can the data be open for the public to verify while protecting the people leaving reviews?
Verification explained above. Token to employee at employer domain email would be anonymous. Reviews would be randomly visible within 1-8 weeks after submission.
>- How could the service get funding? Donation model?
Jobs advertisement ads and website getting commission if someone got hired from advertised jobs like most agency get. Hired person would get small bonus for confirming got accepted.
>- How would you overcome the initial issues with trust?
Just reliable reviews that got verified with payslip and domain email and maybe even passport just to make sure employer doesn't create dozens of fake payslips and domain emails.
>- How do you prevent companies from manipulating the scores/reviews?
See above
>- How do you handle legal challenges if you're based on something like a donation model? Companies would surely sue you at one point or another if they cannot take down reviews themselves
Just create account in some law friendly country. Don't store any user data such as passport, payslip, user employee emails etc - after verifying just delete those
If I was leaving a review, even if I cared about it a lot, and I'd have to upload a recent pay slip I'd just leave the site and not bother with it anymore.
I know a lot of HN users are in theory very distrustful about anything new but in practise still:
- using VPNs (even paid one don't guarantee your data is safe)
- tor
- open source password managers (w/o reading source code)
- Dropbox etc
- compiling random open source code first without reading
- having no issue telling hour rate or daily rate recruiter on linkedin when asked and attaching resume.
So what's so very sensitive in payslip if you already providing this kind of information to any recruiter?
Domestic violence victims who are trying to avoid being found? People seeing political asylum? Anyone who wants to maintain privacy? There's a number of reasons you would not want this information in pastebin.
I know 0% people out of my circle who would share payslips with any potential employers, even less any recruiter, while we frequently talk about our pay with each other and co-workers at our work.
By the way, another huge reason: images of paystubs can be and have been used by identity thieves to open fake accounts/loans, remotely.
The open source qualifier here is weird, like you're implying closed source managers are preferable, but then your objection can hardly be over reading the source code
The employer controls their email domain.
No sane person is uploading a pay slip so they can leave a review on some internet site. In fact, I'd daresay the only reviews you'd see at that point are from individuals (or companies) with sufficient incentive to generate convincing-looking fake pay stubs.
>Just create account in some law friendly country. Don't store any user data such as passport, payslip, user employee emails etc - after verifying just delete those
The more you try to detach from the countries that will (possibly) make you retain that information (or block you from collecting it) the harder it is to do business with companies from those countries (or to enforce contracts against them for things like commissions).
I have a more hellish proposal: want to publish a review? Pay. Want to see reviews? Pay.
Small amounts of course, but I would like to see someone actually sign off assigning a budget for something like this in a sufficiently large organization.
If you rely on income from the same companies that are reviewed on your site it will inevitably become just as bad as glassdoor
where I am not only are salary ranges mandatory on job ads but company also have to publicly disclose a lot of stats wages/salaries. Median, average, quartiles etc. for all full time and part time employees.
so yea, emails are not a trusworthy source of anything, but filtering singups based on addresses is very common.
Blind also targets having communities for people inside companies to talk, and facilitating discussion. Glassdoor is mainly about reviewing companies.
A site that requires your company email before you can post a negative review sounds like a honeypot.
I imagine HR would absolutely love to take that down.
So have up to a year after you leave the company I believe.
See, also, Yelp & TripAdvisor.
Asking happy team members to review your company is no different than apps asking frequent users to review on the App Store.
It's never as straightforward as "if you pay, you can remove bad reviews". It's always couched in some form of plausible deniability, like reviews that violate a ToS or community guidelines in some nebulous way.
Glassdoor won't upset the company buying the fake reviews, the company won't review it and users aren't allowed to.
Reading reviews helps you understand what you should pay attention to. You might take some things for granted that the company completely violates.
You can then use your knowledge to ask specific questions during the job interview. Like: "What's your remote work policy and please put 5 days at home in my contract." Or you could spot the open office with old computers.
As Tolstoy put it: "All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" And it's up to you to spot a specific unhappiness at any given company.
If they're all positive (or negative) then that's a sign there's something wrong.
Just apply a bit of common sense to the comments and they will be a great source of insight. Some things they say can even be verified elsewhere (like if people from management keep getting into harassment lawsuits, if the company mistreats its clients, and similar).
HN is actively targeted for advertising.
But over time, ad revenue dries up, the new reviewer stream dries up (because most things are already reviewed), and they start looking for new revenue sources. And one such source is the producers of the reviewed products, who would love to be able to have some control over the content. And thus the downward spiral begins.
We've seen this again and again and again.
LOL, more to the point, they are often still in a probation period, so maybe it's a case of 'make a positive review ... if you know what's good for you'
If employees have free reign to say whatever they want, truth or not, is it not reasonable for employers to be able to vet the contents of those reviews?
It is also the case that a company can be a perfect place for some, and a completely wrong place for another. And of course, this is true for each team within the company.
Actual opinions do have a merit, and it is possible to weigh them according to one's perspective or expectations. Eg. a reviewer writes that WFH is not allowed or limited to 1 day per week, I can decide if that bothers me or not. If it doesn't bother me, why would I accept a bad score from someone who wants to WFH?
I then started to screenshot any new reviews, ad saw that some of the negative ones also got removed after time.
You could say that Glassdoor is more like a rose-tinted window.
While we can acknowledge that a lot of negative reviews will also stem from employees who were terminated / laid off / dismissed as the company may be undergoing financial / economic challenges, there can also be a lot of valid ones.
But then again, each individual (who will do a review) knows the adage to _never burn the bridges_, hence, either they use Glassdoor as a venting platform, or have the courage to stand up and speak their minds.
Unless there's a net benefit upside to the individual providing a negative (albeit constructive) criticism, it'll really be hard to weed out what's really helpful from what is written out of anger and desperation.
When you take away the money, they are going to share their experiences and real thoughts.
So Glassdoor is useless then.
Surprise, surprise.
That way:
* You own the review
* You can decide to take it down or not (harder for HR teams to tamper with them).
* It would be on the reader to decide if the review is spam or not.
There are plenty of pages where a review can be published for free, for instance, github pages.
Even if I hated working somewhere I'd never publicly blast them under my real name. Near zero upside and unlimited downside. At best I prevent others from going through what I did (IF they check reviews, IF they believe me, etc), at worst someone knows someone who knows someone who torpedos my career/prospects at another company. It doesn't matter if that retaliation is illegal, I'd never know or be able to prove it. Lastly, I have to put food on the table, if my current job goes under or opportunities dry up I'd go back to company that I disliked to make ends meet. Why would I burn that bridge?
People rarely leave companies because they are happy where they are so I have trouble seeing anyone wanting to sign their real name to a review about a company they left. Like I said, near zero upside and unlimited downsides.
https://help.glassdoor.com/s/article/I-m-an-employer-What-ca...
Excerpts from that link:
> You can't pay us to take down reviews and we apply the same content moderation rules to our clients that we use for everyone else.
> We generally don't consider evidence offered by someone with a vested interest in getting a review taken down, because we don’t know how reliable it is.
The lines you quoted give them tremendous wiggle room, and nothing from the original article is actually disallowed by them.
time when employee actually quits - time when employee should have quit
Heck, entire businesses that would never be profitable otherwise last for <<decades>> like this.
It's not as helpful as it used to be, but it's still helpful enough to be worth it.
So the author is extrapolating from gossip.
In an era where we are going to see more of tech jobs disappearing (AI and automation kicking in), the effect of maintaining a glassdoor presence is no longer even meaningful for new age companies. For prospective employees, having a meaningful way to have feedback from current employees is a solution that does need to be in place.