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Comment by 2h | Hacker News Reader

I am not interested in anything Microsoft has to say about design.

They haven't had a consistent OS UI since at least 2009. and they seem hell bent on removing all vertical scroll bars, or reducing the size until they are pointless. why do you need to hide the vertical scrollbars, and even on hover they are 4 pixels wide? I have dual 27 inch monitors, I HAVE THE SCREEN SPACE. stop fucking up my shit.

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Smartphones don’t have screen space and modern desktop UI design is influenced by phone UI (I don’t like it but probably someone does).

its not a matter of liking it. at least on desktop, its objectively, scientifically bad:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=E3gS9tjACwU

The small width on user trying to use it is inexcusable, but hiding is a nice option as in too many cases the scroll indicator is not very important to be that visible (it's cleaner UI, though that shouldn't be mandatory either)

this doesn't hold water. on the exact website you are on right now, the frame has a maximum width, which my monitor is wider than. so the bars could easily be as wide or wider than they are on Windows 10:

http://0x0.st/Hqxw.png

Windows 11 is about 1/3 the width of the above picture

it does, you just misunderstood the point. It doesn't matter if it fits, in your screenshot it serves no purpose as the page is not tall enough for me to ever use the scrollbar (and those tiny buttons at the top/bottom are another UI misfeature), so removing a useless UI element makes for a cleaner UI

> and those tiny buttons at the top/bottom are another UI misfeature

They're mostly a relic from back when mice didn't have a scroll wheel (think Windows 3.1-era times). Nowadays, some people use them on trackpads because they either don't know how to do a two-finger scroll or a specific trackpad's just too shitty to handle it.

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