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Comment by candiddevmike | Hacker News Reader

As a non-EV owner, how much do charging stations cost typically? What's the price of a "fill up"?

Most DC fast charging rates are about 2x to 3x the local electric rate per kWh, though stations vary quite a bit based on other factors. Here in Colorado, my home power is about $0.125/kWh "normal" rate putting supercharger rates at $0.25 to $0.50/kWh. If I charge my Model 3 Midrange battery (62kWh) capacity from 10 to 80% (typical road trip percentages to minimize charge time) that would be somewhere between $10-15.

95% of the time I'm charging at home and on a net-metering Solar plan, so really only paying those $0.12/kWh rates in the dark winter months, basically charging for "free" off solar once we hit the equinox.

As an EV owner with home charging, fast charging cost pretty much doesn't matter. The only time I ever use a supercharger is when I'm on a road trip, which happens just a few times a year. The rest of the time, I schedule charging at home for off peak hours. My charging stats for the year from the Tesla app are 96% home, 4% supercharger.

What does matter more than price to me is the speed of the fast charging experience when I'm on a road trip. Tesla is not perfect -- I've been to chargers located in mall parking lots, which are an absolute nightmare in the holiday shopping season. I've been to chargers in airport parking garages, where you need to pay to enter the garage, etc. Most of Tesla's newer locations are better than this (like the ones at Sheetz gas stations just off the highway). But whats a real nightmare for me (and which has never happened to me with Tesla) is most of the chargers being down, or running at severely degraded speeds. This DOES happen with EA. So after hearing terrible charging experiences from friends with CCS cars, I'm pretty much tied to the Tesla supercharger network.

depends on time of day and local electricity rates. most of your charging will be at home which is much cheaper than supercharges.

>In general, the cost of charging a Tesla is more than 3 times cheaper per mile than the cost of fueling a gas-powered car (4.56 cents per mile compared to approximately 13.73 cents per mile for gas vehicles). from: https://news.energysage.com/tesla-charging-cost-vs-gas/

a different take: >It depends on what you are comparing it to gas wise. In my area, approximate numbers are 11 cents a kWh at home, 28 cent at a SC. I will get roughly 3 miles to the kWh so a mile costs me 9 cents if I SC. Gas is $3.30 a gallon so my car would need to get 36 miles to the gallon or better to compete with SC'ing.

from: https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModel3/comments/stbpfb/comment...

Wow - never done the math. My home rate is 30 cents a KWh (in NH). So each mile is 10 cents. So let's compare to Prius at say 50mpg. Breakeven gas cost is then $5 for it to cost 10 cents per mile. Seems like a Prius is actually cheaper per mile?

That is true in a short-term sense, however if you include hidden complexities such as crashing solar rates, long-term fuel prices, maintenance costs, and resale value...

A 10 year Prius ownership will still cost you more.

> Seems like a Prius is actually cheaper per mile?

Not if you factor in all the side costs associated with owning an ICE car in maintenance. With an electric car, basically all you have to do is tire exchanges and brake pads - and less of the latter too, because most braking of an electric vehicle is done by regenerative braking so the pads aren't used at all if you're a decent driver.

Well a Prius costs $27K and the model Y $47K, so that is a lot of maintenance!

This is exactly why getting a Prius has become very hard. Some dealerships are asking for $10k over MSRP

https://preview.redd.it/insane-23-prius-markup-v0-t422zsfhnm...

Yes, in places with very high utility rates, a Prius is often cheaper.

This is why we need laws against IC engines. People obsessed with dollars and cents and missing the fact that we are killing this planet.

But I think this attitude actually creates the MAGA folks. It should (and can) deliver on economics AND outcomes. And this needs to be done upstream of consumer, or we are just putting another tax on the poorest part of our population.

I'm all for electric, but thinking we are missing a huge opportunity during the 30-50 year transition to cut gas use in half TODAY with hybrids. And this eliminates all the range anxiety excuses as well.

Right now, EV users are the very rich. EV users actually have MORE cars on average, and tend to drive their EVs less than their ICE cars. They have a house to charge their car in at night. (I know there are many anecdotes that will give counter examples. But this is what the data say on average.)

We need a way to get to the rest of the population.

It's people's obsessions with dollars and cents that will provide the incentive to actually save the planet.

Or, you could just see what the superior attitude gets you.

raises the question of why your electricity rates are so high.

If you get a used ~2016 Tesla, the Superchargers are free.

You do have to be a little careful if you want to go that route though, Tesla has pulled free supercharging from some vehicles, and some had the free supercharging limited to just one owner. Also, Tesla is trying to entice people with the free supercharging to give it up, I believe the deal is $5k off a new Tesla if you give up free SC.

It's not that they remove it, it's that on certain models 2016-later it was sold as no longer being transferable where it originally was.

Is there a guide you could point me to for identifying which of these 2016 Teslas have free supercharging?

I believe I've heard that you can ask Tesla if it has the free supercharging for life. The impression I get is that if they get resold through Tesla, Tesla is removing it, especially problematic now that they are offering "money" to remove it, so it's difficult to know based on age.

It looks like the Model S 2017 and older came with free supercharging, and the Model 3 Performance in 2018 and 2019. Model X in 2016 and 2017. Some S & X up to 2020 had unlimited supercharging.

Login to the Tesla website, click on "Manage" next to the car, then click on "Details" and it'll say "Free unlimited supercharging" if it has it.

> The impression I get is that if they get resold through Tesla, Tesla is removing it

The premise is that Tesla offers more for trade-ins for cars that have free lifetime SC and things like "Full Self Driving". They optionally disable these add-ons for new users because they're recapturing the expense of their higher trade-in offers for the cars that have them.

Yes, they're making a profit in the process, but what used car dealer doesn't?

No Model 3 has free supercharging that is transferable to the next ownwer though.

This one sums it up pretty good, though I'm not very fond of the sites sensationalism sometimes.

https://electrek.co/2021/07/21/how-to-tell-if-your-tesla-qua...

For one example, Electrify America is $4/month + $0.36/kWh. (You can pay the $4 and immediately cancel, before a road trip.)

Assuming 4 miles/kWh, that's $36 to drive 400 miles. Charging at home cuts the cost roughly in half. These numbers vary depending on location.

I'm a clear outlier but my apartment is near charging stations where I can charge for free. I just hit 700 miles on my new Bolt EUV and have so far managed to pay nothing for electricity.

But if I did have to pay, I believe my apartment charges $0.30 per kWh. And I get 4.5 miles of range per kWh. So it's $6 to drive 100 miles. Gas is over $4/gallon here so a car that gets 33 mpg would spend over $12 to go 100 miles.

If I was paying $0.125 per kWh like I've seen other people report in this thread then I'd spend $2.50 to go 100 miles.

that was not my experience. I rented a model 3. drove it around Boston for 1 day. Paid $16 in charging cost from tesla supercharging station.

$16 in my ICE camry will take me a lot further.

A Tesla Model 3 uses roughly 160Wh/km and has a 75-82kWh battery pack. You can easily do the math. I think you'll be surprised.

Well I used my real-world driving numbers in my post. Here's a photo I took this morning showing how many miles I get per kWh since getting my Bolt EUV. I don't know what was going on with your Tesla.

https://i.imgur.com/fbwOYD4.jpg

Depends on timing, but my calculations put it at about $11 at a station, or $56/month overnight at home.

I rarely have to use Superchargers because I have charging at home. But when I do, it's about $25 for an 80% top up (e.g. going from 10% -> 90%) in my Model Y.

Just looked it up: $0.45/kWh the last 4 times at Tesla Superchargers in California.

About 50 cents per kWh at something like a supercharger. Most EVs get around 3 miles per kWh. So 300 miles of charging is about 100 kWh or $50.

Charging at home is typically cheaper. Around 1/2 to 1/3 of the cost of a public charger. There are also some free public chargers but they are typically slower charge around 6kW and are limited to an hour or 2.

Depends strongly on the area. I’ve never seen any above 41c/kWh, and one of my local chargers does 13c/kWh after 8pm.

For a fast charge I see from $0.20 to $0.35 usually. I don't usually do a full charge, maybe 60% or so, so like $15 to $20.

In the Bay Area, during most daylight hours its around $0.50/kWh, but I've seen it at 0.60 sometimes.

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