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Comment by samwillis | Hacker News Reader

Really lovely redesign.

Designer John Hicks post about this:

https://mastodon.social/@jonhicks/110424132785208582

> It's inevitable that throughout my career, I've watched as work gets replaced and updated by others. It's rare to be asked to redesign old work, which is why I leapt at the chance when @thunderbird asked if I could design a contemporary update to the Thunderbird logo. The one I designed 19 years ago!

More images here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lRkSA9YyHduCmDe2Fucv2DK2l9a...

Based on that file being "v7" I'm really hoping John does a post detailing the design process. I always love to see how these things evolve.

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I liked the old one vibe more and the way it was carrying the envelope.

This post makes some very good points about it https://mastodon.social/@KelvinShadewing/110424262996045829

Good points? Whoever made that post reads too much into things that aren't even true:

* Long, sharp beaks are characterestic of nectar feeders, e.g. hummingbird, not "lethal predators".

* Hawk's beak is neither large nor particularly sharp; and while hawk is a deadly predator, and the new logo is hawk-like, I can't see the hawk as a bad thing;

* Everything else is purely subjective, too. "Dead white eyes convey malice"? OK.

Finally, re:"Message is mine, not yours"? Well, that's the entire point of an email client. It keeps the mail, it doesn't live on the server.

If that comes through the logo, then it's a job well done.

[1] https://www.dkfindout.com/us/animals-and-nature/birds/types-...

>* Everything else is purely subjective, too. "Dead white eyes convey malice"? OK.

It's a well known trope

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProphetEyes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbird_(mythology)

> It is considered a supernatural being of power and strength

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ProphetEyes

> And sometimes, white eyes simply alert the audience that their owner is supernatural

Ok?

> Finally, re:"Message is mine, not yours"? Well, that's the entire point of an email client. It keeps the mail, it doesn't live on the server.

Most people use IMAP accounts nowadays

True but thunderbird's local folders are my favorite way to move thebacklog off the server. (Not sure how widespread that usecase is)

Sure, but having an offline copy with IMAP allows one to not depend on the server to work with your email.

And if your account goes poof, you still have all your messages.

> Everything else is purely subjective, too.

Well, sure. Nearly anything anyone has to say about the logo is purely subjective. That's the way of art.

Ha, interesting points, but it's all a matter of perspective.

I would much rather that the bird delivering my mail is a badass who can protect it at all costs. Perhaps the protective "MINE" body language is aimed at someone trying to intercept my mail, not at me. This is a much better scenario than a fake-ass overly friendly bird.

Also, the old logo always made me a little uncomfortable—it looks like the bird is mid flight, but the moment it flaps its wings up it's dropping that letter!!!

But Thunderbird is just a Mail User Agent, not a Mail Transfer Agent. So it doesn’t have much say in protecting your mail delivery anyway.

It can encrypt your mail with the help of his old friend, GPG (or PGP, whichever you prefer).

Or, on Android, OpenKeychain.

The attitude matters, not the reality.

> I would much rather that the bird delivering my mail is a badass who can protect it at all costs

Sorry, but the bird in the new logo looks like a baby bird.

It's ok, you don't have to be sorry.

> This is a much better scenario than a fake-ass overly friendly bird.

Well, it's certainly a taste thing, but I dislike the "angry bird". Whatever the meaning that was intended, it looks like a warning that I shouldn't use it. It's also a bit like the fashion for the "angry" look of trucks, but the other way around. Driving trucks styled that way feels like I'm telling the world how much I hate it.

But it's all irrelevant. I'm not going to stop using Thunderbird just because I dislike the logo.

I can see that. It's funny how polarized the reaction to this logo is. Like, everyone gripes about logo changes and then gets over it, but someone in this thread actually jokingly said they might start using it just because the like the logo so much (obviously probably a joke, but that they took the time to say it says something). Personally I immediately liked it and thought of it as "confident" and "serious about mail". Angry or aggressive didn't even occur to me until I read the linked provided by the person I was originally responding to.

It's truly fascinating how different people can derive such different meanings! "Confident and serious about mail" are not things that came to my mind at all until someone mentioned them. (I tend to perceive hostility as signifying insecurity and weakness.)

All I saw was hostility. After the other interpretation was pointed out, I can see that -- but I have to force myself to see it. I still just see hostility by default.

Please tell me that post is parody.

Wait till he finds out where they culturally misappropriated the name Thunderbird from!

I always thought the old/current Thunderbird logo looked like an envelope wearing a wig.

haha I'm glad someone said it, it always bothered me

I guess no matter how good the design is, you have to think about how it looks in 16x16 & 32x32 when most people only see the logo when they look at the tiny icon on their desktop

I always saw Nicolas Cage with bird hair https://i.imgur.com/tRCXkzp.jpg

That too. One of my all-time favourite memes.

Indeed. The new one is nice but at a quick glance it looks like it's carrying a clock, not an envelope.

All of the points given seem petty and overly aggressive. Isn't it enough to say that he doesn't like it?

Then they'd be "hating on it with no reason".

Or as is the most common response to criticism for these pointless redesigns "just hate change and will get used to it".

Do you really consider "Wings wrapped possesively around message says 'it's mine, not yours'" a well though-out reason? That's not feedback, and more like just being mean. If that post mentioned an actual reason, I sure missed it.

I'm saying this as a person who likes the old icon better.

I think giving reasons (even if I disagree with them/don't feel the same way) is better than just saying "I don't like it", yes.

Wow, what a relief.

Most of the time I see a logo redesign, it's a mess that makes the product more difficult to recognize, and makes things look more generic.

Not so this time! Immediately you feel that the Thunderbird and Firefox belong in the same family, while still immediately recognizing that the new logo is the same Thunderbird you know and love.

It stuck so fast, I had to look app the current logo to remember how it looks like!

But despite their claim, there is no iOS thunderbird. I checked the Appstore right after seeing the new design for macos and iOS, but it’s a hoax.

From the article:

> Yes, we have officially added an iOS version of Thunderbird to our future development roadmap. Expect more concrete news about this toward the end of 2023.

So it doesn't exist yet, but they're going to make it, and at least they've got a logo for it.

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