No Screens Cafe
cmart.blog
cmart.blog
Are iPhones overbearing? Sure. But they enable people to stay connected with family, meet new people, work remotely, and more. I'm not against a place that prefers phones stay in your pocket, but why frame it via moral outrage rather than being welcoming? Can you imagine the conversations you'd find yourself in at this place, given this is how the "owner" sees the world?
And maybe what bothers me the most is that it's a blog post. Written on a screen and read via a screen. Blog posts are cheap to write; building a true Third Place is really really hard.
Too bad. If it were a laid back place to meet people and have interesting discussions, it might have been worth checking out.
Open dialogue is the only way to change what you perceive to be the issue here - either by correcting misconceptions about the original intent or providing perspective to the originator of what otherwise sounds like a pretty good idea.
Ironically, this kind of refusal to engage because of perceived imperfections that somehow nullify all else is really the kind of unhealthy thinking that is most amplified in modern online discourse and arguably leads to posts like this one.
Growth is a collective process, and doesn’t happen in a vacuum.
It is and acknowledges itself as such.
A (clearly hypothetical in this case) cafe where screens are banned seems like a perfect place to do that. But I would hate for it to be at a place that is this aggressive.
Finally, I'm pretty sure the original article is some sort of creative prose or story, given the rest of the cmart site. If so, then its appears to have illicited strong reactions, which may be a sort of success in itself.
yes, right here:
> . . You can listen to your inner voice, your fellow patrons, and the birds outside. Maybe you’ll have some new ideas.
and don't tell me that's not judging, this is a no judgement space, just remain silent and reflect on what I'm pointing out, and maybe you'll have some new ideas.
(just wanted to make sure you can hear the air of superiority that the cafe has)
This is very strange. Maybe this would work in USA(?) but in many countries you're basically telling an overwhelming majority of your potential customers "you can't pay for things here". No one carries cash - it's all EFTPOS or CC. I don't see how cash-only supports the no screens policy. It feels entirely orthogonal.
Same goes for the weird anti-car crusade. If you don't have parking, that's fine. No need to make it a thing.
Welcome to Germany ...
You could design one without, which would be interesting, but good luck integrating with the major cc companies.
You could maybe bypass them with a third party API, I'd have to do my research to see what the gotchas might be though.
So you read out the tracks and get the data.
You would need to input the amount. Keypad and 7 segment display should work there. While smart watches aren't ok, I suspect that the some electrical cash register is acceptable... and then...
Wait a moment, if they've got an electric cash register they've got the ability to have a MSR.
Anyways, let's assume that the 7 segment display for input of the amount is acceptable. If not... Nixie tubes?
Once the amount to charge is entered, and the card is swiped through the MSR, a receipt printer with the result is used (though they might have issues about that since thermal paper receipts often have BPA https://www.pca.state.mn.us/business-with-us/bpa-and-bps-in-... )
Anyways, result of the transaction through whatever payment processor happens and is sent back to the pi (no screen) that then prints out the result.
Sending credit card number to a payment processor from a MSR is no more difficult than sending it to the same processor from hand entered (for example, online). You might have a higher fee rate, but it's not difficult.
If you can't pay with cash, you're welcome to wash a load of dishes.
Well this sticking to the rules no matter what is where you lose my sympathy. This is like TSA agressively checking toddlers and old grannies for making the scanner go beep or having some water, because, hey, if the scanner beeps they might be terrorists.
Just like screens are a new thing, this inflexible robot-like-behavior is also new, and geez, I wish you could also fight the second one.
Sure payment terminals are screens, but it's not like they're addictive screens where you get tweets or text messages...
Cash-only places are less common than they used to be, but there are still some really popular places to eat near me. And they’re popular for a good reason: they provide excellent food/service, and delivery services can’t insert themselves into the business model. It means I have to pass an ATM that day, but it’s a perfectly viable model.
If I’m going to a place called no screens cafe, I’d personally appreciate the complete commitment to the endeavor. If nothing else, it’s an invitation to ponder the frictionless ways we part with our money almost everywhere else.
Comparing “cash only” to “aggressive TSA” seems like a rather stretched analogy.
Imagine a potential patron to this (afaik still hypothetical) cafe has a hypothetical medical device attached to her that has a monitoring screen. Should she be allowed in, or not? Cut-and-dry no, easy enough, right? Who needs to be flexible?
OP's idea of no screens is so people aren't glued to digital entertainment, it's not like a pay terminal screen (or a medical device's status display) is digital entertainment..
Such a place may not be for everyone and to me that seems fine. Camping is also not for everyone and that is also fine.
A cash only stance makes sense because paying for things will happen all day, every day. If your goal is no screens and that goal is in your name, that’s an impactful step to take.
If someone has a hypothetical medical device with a screen (do you have one in mind?) I’m sure the owners of such an establishment would seek to find ways to accommodate. It’s an edge case and not likely to impact the overall atmosphere.
But to your point, this is hypothetical. I’d rather that such a place exists and then learns how to deal with edge cases than not exist at all.
I have a relative who has heart rhythm anomalies that uses an iWatch with an upgraded band (Kardia) for monitoring.
Prior to that it was a smart phone that had some ekg sensors that did a phone home/hospital if there were any anomalous readings and reporting periodic summaries (there was an occasional anomaly that was detected in an unrelated hospital stay but they didn't know how frequently this anomaly occurred - 1/week its a "be aware and continue to monitor" to 1/hour its a "go to the hospital and have some surgery - but it has to be done while the nerve is doing its thing").
The thing is that smart watches and phones are being used for real time monitoring of medal issues and they have screens.
Or even for a less problematic situation, I have my iWatch set to alert me if the decibel level is above a threshold. While a cafe is less likely to get above that level this is still something that I pay attention to and have occasionally found that a pub that I go to can get louder than I had otherwise realized.
Yep. I agree we should accommodate medically necessary exceptions. Also, anyone can step out of the cafe to use their screen (medically necessary or not) at any time.
I feel like there are still compromises. Especially for a cafe. Did you walk to the camp site, or drive 95% of the way there? This cafe will probably have electricity and clean tap water and machines to heat up the water and make coffee. Sure someone else might attempt an even more Amish cafe (even some Amish use electricity, AFAIK), or one run by a hippie might avoid having a microwave because they think microwave-heated-food are as harmful as nuclear radiation.
Honestly if he wants to make it cash only with the excuse that digital payments are so painless you don't even notice your spending, I could sign on to that. But if it's because "pay terminals have screens", then that's a level of zealotry that I'd be wary of. Imagine if he can only get microwaves with LCD screens for his cafe, so they have to work around that as well...
Is that file card a thing that the customers carry with them?
Because: Other businesses could begin accepting those same file cards, and the idea will become even more popular and successful and then… oh…
That said, I'm pretty sure this is just an exercise in imagining a very retro sort of establishment. I have a lot of trouble imagining a place like this working.
One of the best things about the cash only places I frequent is that they don’t have to deal with delivery services injecting themselves into the business model and consuming kitchen capacity for people not actually present.
This leads to faster service overall and at worst the speed of service slows down proportionally to the number of customers at the location at any given point.
And usually these places are family run so you’re always seeing the same folks behind the counter and they actually care.
All combined, these factors lead to the elevated status that many ascribe to cash only places.
But my perception of business's that don't take card these days (post pandemic at least) is that they're more likely to be slightly dodgy and skimming the books. That or stubbornly stuck in there ways.
"Ok, here's my money."
Or you just leave money on the table and go.
There's no messing with cards or paper and signing. The back and forth etc.
That goes like triple for bars where you just hand over money vs, asking to open or close and putting it in the computer etc.
Quality because they are so good they don't need to do worry about alternative forms of payment.
Affordability because the price is the price, no fees and they are making so much money they aren't worried about maximizing tickets and table time metrics and all that.
It's definitely not going to be a corporate establishment. The owner is probably in the business and they want it to be good because that's where they eat.
This one won’t, because guess what ATMs have? A screen. Somewhere on this page is the “owner” commenting that they’d take cards, but all of the terminals have…a screen.
I can see wanting to rant about cars, they are pretty bad in terms of polluting and killing people (which are objectively pretty bad characteristics, whether or not we’ve looked at the trade offs and decided to get one anyway).
Note that they aren't suggesting that people set cars on fire or anything like that, just that people who aren't physically addicted to cars might feel more are home than others.
I switched to e-books 12+ years ago, and I can't read regular books anymore. First, I need to find really good light (like direct sun light on a sunny day). Otherwise my eyes become tired quickly. Second, the book has to have a good paper quality (cheap greyish paper diminishes contrast). Third, the font should be large enough again not to strain the eyes. Fourth, regular book is heavier, I can't hold it with one hand, so end up sitting in uncomfortable positions (hello lumbar back pain, fellow readers). Fifth, I have utmost respect to paper books (parents had a library, so I grew up between books), and I have to wash my hands and dry them perfectly before I touch a paper book. I don't feel comfortable eating a croissant and read a paper book.
Not to mention that it's just not always possible to find or buy book you want, especially in a reasonable time.
Paper books are also screens in a way. Just with a user-controlled refresh rate (turn the page), and predefined images.
The reason for me is simple – gadgets and online presence wreak havoc on an ability to focus and concentrate. I miss childhood days when I could get lost in a book for a good half a day.
So this "no e-books" policy kinda ruined the analogy for me (I would love to have such a cafe nearby, but where I can read). But I get that it's not that easy to tell if it's a tablet or an e-book, and many e-books have browsers and the internet and a full-fledged Linux box inside, so there is no easy way to draw a line.
What's the broader idea behind No Screens Cafe? The article does a good job of describing the rules but not explaining the reasoning behind them.
It's all good, kind stranger.
> Just today, I [...] just to sit and read the book
That sounds wonderful!
> What's the broader idea behind No Screens Cafe?
It's the same idea behind what you did today. We have this surveillance-capitalist, engagement-hacked, infinitely-scrolling, always-on infotainment economy. It delivers info-drugs which hijack our motivation and reward system. (The drugs are getting stronger: Facebook was heroin, now Tiktok is fentanyl.) With access to these, it's hard to engage in other relaxing, enriching activities like books and conversation. We can create a refuge for these other activities, but the refuge needs to exclude the info-drug delivery mechanisms (mostly screens).
When writing the post, I was thinking that Uncle Jeff (Bezos) has root access to a lot of people's e-book readers. These gadgets deliver advertising, spy on their users, and sometimes act against the users' own interest (by e.g. revoking access to paid-for books that Amazon loses their license to distribute). You can also gaze at the internet on an e-book reader, so I thought these devices probably don't belong at No Screens Cafe.
Give me a shout if you ever find yourself in Tucson AZ. It would be fun to talk.
I find more and more that people who write these daily "technology is killing the world", "people don't talk to each other these days" posts are the ones who are most addicted to their screens and looking for a way out. I can sympathize, but online rants aren't going to fix your problems. Shut your computer and phone, step out of your house and go start a conversation with someone. You can do it at your neighborhood coffee shop right now, and I can guarantee you will make new friends in minutes.
I like the concept, practically banning phones would be hard. Other commenters are saying there would be no traffic, but actually when this sort of thing has been tried in past businesses have experienced boosts in sales.
No parking would be a bit difficult, but I guess you could put it in a highrise or off of a bike trail, which would be fantastic.
Lack of cars isn't really judgey, they do both pollute and make noise, plus you do end up with safety issues and ugly tar roads. They don't say never drive them, just they aren't going to make it easy for you.
Which in the USA would make things difficult as nearly everything requires a car and so nobody is used to walking so few people do even if they might otherwise do so.
I like the concept - I do agree the no credit card thing is a bit much - if you could design a screen less card reader (led status lights and rotary number displays), that would make I perfect IMO.
But, let's be clear: this is a juvenile rant, at best. It's not an actual cafe. It doesn't propose anything actually workable. It shows no curiosity around the change of culture that occured, or what a change back would look like, just judgment. There's no commitment to building anything real. The writing is subpar.
Is that really "gratifying intellectual curiosity" in any way?
If my home security system tells me that it heard broken glass, I want to know now, not in thirty minutes. If my kid needs to be picked up from school, I want to know now. If my spouse's employer calls to tell me they've been sent to the hospital, I want to know now. Anyone with a job that requires them to be reachable for emergencies (like an emergency responder on their lunch break) cannot attend this cafe. In today's society, it's a luxury to have no responsibilities to anyone such that you aren't reachable for hours at a time.
It's wild to think of a place that would be exclusionary of parents, caregivers, partners, and more simply because of an absolutist policy. And you've got to be carrying cash. And of course, there's no ATM because that would have a screen. For a huge swath of the population, this is simply a non-starter.
There are also those of us who can be on long flights, travel places without cell service, may turn off phone if international, etc. I'm mostly reachable by cell phone but, no, you're not guaranteed to reach me right now every moment of every day.
Luxury? For a large swath of the population, that’s called “a job”. From nurses to factory workers, many aren’t allowed to carry a phone when they go to work.
But, man, this idea that the leash can’t be cut for even thirty minutes to enjoy a coffee is indicative of other problems, IMO. Just because one can constantly be reachable doesn’t mean one should. Which is…kinda the point of the café, eh?
Reachability != carrying a phone.
For those working at a job that prohibits phones, they are still reachable, just that emergency contacts will call the workplace instead (where someone would then deliver the important notification in-person to the employee).
Reminds of the old Greek Cafes that I heard about where I grew up. An old timer told me during the 1920/30s, the city police force, mostly Irish, would raid these Greek Cafes all the time, unable to get their head around people only wanted to drink coffee and I guess tea :) This was during prohibition and they thought these cafes were bootlegging. They never found anything illegal.
Overall, the experience is pretty nice, you can chat with friends and sip some good coffee. These places usually have much higher quality coffee than other shops, since they're often specialty cafes.
https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2014/04/10/30...
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/12/no-laptops-a...
The Germans probably have a word for this.
county sheriffs office. yea hi, um, we have this guy, he wont leave our store, and um, yeah, he refuses to leave, and, we just need somebody to get him to leave. ok, what is your location? were at no screens cafe. ok we have someone on the way. okay, thank you
A few minutes before I had this idea, I wrote down "Faraday Cafe. No wifi. No cell signal." But then I thought about how hard it might be to build one that blocked modern 5G/wifi networks. (Can any RF/electrical engineers weigh in?)
I scribbled these ideas with pen and paper while getting breakfast this morning (phone and laptop put away). Then I went to a park to write the post on my laptop (without a network connection). Then I turned on my phone and hotspot in order to post it. (An hour later, I'm still gazing at the internet.)
I'm super open to other ideas.
It's a good question. I would love it if a place like that existed near me, but I have no idea how possible/practical it is. I _think_ a fine enough mesh will block pretty much everything, but it might be expensive to set up in a real business space.
The point is toe be defiantly cutesy/cringey, right?
In Singapore shops can legally do not accept cash as payment as long as they provide written notice: https://www.mas.gov.sg/currency/circulation-currency/accepti....
I've seen a few of them personally.
It's interesting that sometime in the 2000s, there became an expectation that coffee shops became a workplace. I can't think of another food service business where the expectation is that anyone can come in, buy a single item, demand the wifi password, and work from that space for multiple hours.
Cafes that wanted to ban laptops are free to do so and always have been. Generally people who work on laptops come in during periods when the cafe would otherwise be fairly empty (10-5 weekdays). This is an additional source of revenue to the cafe that doesn't interfere with their core revenue streams - the morning takeaway coffee rush + weekend brunchers.
A local cafe near me bans laptops on weekends. Another one bans laptops on weekends unless you sit in a particular area. Another one has a special laptop area. These are all successful cafes.
I have a feeling that the cafes who prohibit laptops outright are mostly just canceling a stream of revenue. That's certainly their right, but it's probably not what is best for them.
No one cares about being polite at Starbucks, but I would say the expectation at independent shops is still to purchase something periodically. Not everyone follows it. I don't see many independents limiting access with expiring authentication or codes given at purchase anymore. In the US, many attempting to do that don't seem to even know they're also running a free xfinity hotspot...
But I don't understand the position against accepting cards. And I guess I also kinda disagree on e-readers, although modern ones can be used to connect to the internet and stuff, I suppose.
>Yes, there’s a bathroom. Inside it, a sign says “Big Brother is Watching”. We don’t have cameras or anything creepy like that. But we can’t say “God is watching”. Because we killed him.
I feel like there is a long-forgotten proto-Indo-European symbol that conveys the amount of cringiness this paragraph exudes.
God was using a screen I see.
I think in the US this sort of business might fly if you’re in a very large city that is easily commutable. Otherwise I can’t see how there’s enough patronage to maintain a space, and pay people.
It’s a nice idea, but I don’t think it’d mesh with reality (again, in the US)
Even if the business isn't appealing to 95% of the public, as long as you find a passionate 5% you can make a business model out of it.
but I appreciate it a lot!
I see they resonate with Reddit/FuckCars.