A nice interview with Jeff on Eliza and Elizagen: https://corecursive.com/eliza-with-jeff-shrager/

It was recorded just before ChatGPT became a thing, but I only recently listened to it. Until recently I wrote off chatbots as an annoying to get a canned response. Now I use one almost daily as a rather efficient (compared to wading through forums and search results) way to explore ideas.